CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Andre Carson

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

[10:16:35] HARLOW: All right. Welcome back. "The New York Times" is reporting this morning that months before Former DHS Secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen was forced to resign, Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney, reportedly told her not to bring up Russian attempts at meddling in the 2020 election with the President. Why? Reportedly, according to "The Times," Mulvaney said it was an issue that should be kept below the President's level.

Joining me now to talk about this and a lot more is Democratic Congressman, Andre Carson of Indiana. He serves in the House Intelligence Committee. Given your position, sir, in Congress, what's your reaction to that reporting?

REP. ANDRE CARSON (D-IN): I think it's unfortunate. I think whenever you're dealing with an official, a Cabinet leader like the DHS Secretary, you want that information directly. I think it's because of our President's impulsivity and hypersensitivity that he had to be blocked from communicating with the DHS Secretary directly, and I think that's unfortunate. I think it speaks to, perhaps, the lack of leadership and the fact that he has become so insulated partly because of his own doing that his own Cabinet Secretaries are distrustful of his decision-making abilities.

HARLOW: All right, let's talk about impeachment. You have had a week. Everyone's had a week now to digest the Mueller report. I understand you've read what's out there. You have not been to the skiff yet to read the one with fewer redactions, but you plan to do that soon. From what you've read, are you ready now, sir, to support Articles of Impeachment against the President?

CARSON: I think it's important that we still bring in witnesses, we issue additional subpoenas, we take a measured approach as it relates to this, but we still have work to do as a Democratically-controlled House of Representatives. Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer are meeting with the President next week to talk about the Democrats' infrastructure proposal. We're talking about a trillion. Chairman DeFazio is talking about maybe $2 trillion. We need to talk about the investments that need to be made to our crumbling infrastructure. About 40 percent of America's infrastructure needs to be repaired.

HARLOW: Yes. Your point is not yet on Articles of Impeachment. You say, "Take a measured approach." I ask because in August of last year -- this is before the midterms -- you were asked in a local interview, "Should Articles of Impeachment be brought if Dems retake the house?" Your words, quote, "Having a sitting U.S. President listed as an

unindicted co-conspirator to me meets the test, meets the standard," so I'm wondering if it met the standard to you back then. What has changed? Why does it not now? Has the Mueller report reflected better on the President than you expected it would?

CARSON: I won't say better. I think Director Mueller kind of laid the impeachment question at the feet of Congress and so I think we should take a measured approach. I think it has to be balanced. On one end, there are a lot of folks, my constituents included, who feel as if the Mueller report did not directly indict the President as it were and so they feel like we should move forward. There are others who feel like Congress now has the opportunity to offer impeachment or to take the impeachment route.

But at the end of the day, people want to see us work in a bipartisan fashion. I mentioned infrastructure. We have to talk about education. We have to talk about growing small businesses. I think we can still deal with the impeachment question, but we still have to do the work that we were sent to Congress to do.

[10:20:00 ] HARLOW: There's this really interesting quote this week, Monday, in "The Times" by Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, Democrat of Missouri, and he said, basically and I don't know if you read this, but it struck me. I circled it and I thought, "Wow, that's an interesting point," because he said if you move forward to impeach the President, that's going to help him, and here's why: because he says he would never be convicted in the Senate. How are you going to get two-thirds of this Senate? And he said, quote, "He would be able to campaign all around the country saying, 'I have been acquitted.'" Is he right?

CARSON: He's a dear friend and he's one of my biggest mentors. He's a fellow Midwesterner, and I think he understands the balance of the country. That's why folks come to the Midwest when they're running for President, because we kind of reflect the pulse of our country. And so in a very real sense, he's very right. He's absolutely right.

We can't let him off the hook, but the President has a background in development. He should be taking the lead in wanting to work with Democrats on an infrastructure proposal. We're talking about smart vehicles every day. Let's talk about smart roads and incorporating that strategy into our infrastructure proposal. Democrats have a plan. If the President wants to improve his legacy to some degree, he should work with us.

HARLOW: All right. Let me ask you a few more things. Indiana -- you're a proud son of Indiana so is Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Indiana. You know him well. You've campaigned with him. You've seen his rise over the years.

We had him on last week, and one of the things we talked about with him was the lack of diversity at many of his events, and it's clearly concerning to him. He told me last week, "We've got our work cut out for us. We need to invite more and more people into the process and the team that we're building." Are you at all concerned about the lack of diversity that you have seen at his events, et cetera?

CARSON: I'm always concerned about the lack of diversity in any space. I think Mayor Pete is very brilliant. He's certainly formidable. He's a friend of mine. I've known him even when he was an intern for Senator Joe Donnelly when he ran state-wide in Indiana. He's a brilliant man as you've seen. He's impressive. He's deeply concerned about the needs of Hoosiers and Americans, and he's very compelling. He has a phenomenal story. I mean, he is picture perfect.

But I think for him to kind of be at least objective to know as a leader, he needs more diversity that includes his team, that includes folks who work for him, that includes the contracts in which he issues, and so we're willing to help and there are folks who are willing to help him with his diversity issues. We just have to have a sit-down about it, but I'm so proud of Pete. Whenever I see him, I beam with joy because he represents Hoosiers quite well.

HARLOW: All right. Before we go, the question of socialism, you know, you take a very measured approach when it comes to your constituents, of course, not all being very liberal and so I'm interested in your read on this because new polling out in the last few months shows that more Democrats have a favorable view of socialism than capitalism. So building on that, we heard Larry Kudlow say just yesterday, the Director of the National Economic Council, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: I will say this: Socialism is a loser. Socialism is a loser. We are at the beginning of a new prosperity wave in this country. We are the hottest economy in the world. Confidence is building as I've said before. Why would we want to pursue policies that could, I think, in total, slice 15 percent of GDP right out within 10 years?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's a pretty stark warning. Are you concerned about Democrats in your party embracing socialism?

CARSON: No, I'm not. I appreciate my very liberal and far left friends. They enlighten me each and every day. I'm a progressive. I'm also a member of the New Democratic Caucus. I think, to some degree, when you look historically, America is the wealthiest nation in recorded history. Our citizens should have some kind of healthcare system that is comprehensive and inclusive. America, being the wealthiest nation and country, should have other things that other countries have done phenomenally well that must be tempered with.

Competition, in many ways, is good. Competition encourages innovation. It encourages entrepreneurialism, and so I'd take a balanced approach. But knowing that our government still has a responsibility to take care of its citizens in a real way, I think healthcare is the beginning of that. But, at the same time, if we talk about free pizza and free things for

everyone, somebody has to pay for it. But as taxpayers, our taxpayer dollars have to be put to good use. That means education. That means economic opportunities. That means leveling the playing field for women of color, for people of color. This is the greatest country in recorded history. We should do so, but we can't stifle innovation in the process.

HARLOW: Congressman Carson, I appreciate you coming on all those fronts. Thanks for the time this morning.

CARSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: You've got it.

CARSON: What a pleasure.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source