CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders

Interview

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COOPER: There's certainly a lot to discuss with my next guest, Senator Bernie Sanders, one of the 2020 presidential Democratic candidates. We have a lot going on in Washington tonight, including heightened tension with Iran.

"The New York Times" is reporting that the Trump administration is considering sending as many as 120,000 troops to the Middle East should Iran attack American forces or accelerate work on nuclear weapons.

[20:20:00] Senator Sanders is not a fan of the idea to put it mildly. Here's his tweet earlier today: No war with Iran. This would be an unmitigated disaster. We must stop Trump and his national security adviser John Bolton, someone who likes endless wars.

Senator Bernie Sanders joins now.

Senator Sanders, thanks for being here.

Is there any scenario under which sending 120,000 U.S. troops to the Middle East to counter Iran would be justified, short of a declaration of all of that war?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not that I can think of, Anderson.

You know, what is unbelievable to me is that after all of what we experienced in Iraq and all of the unintended consequences and the fact that we went into war based on lies claiming that they had weapons of mass destruction, that we would think again of going into another country, in this case, Iran, would be even worse. General -- we've had generals who have told us that if you like the war in Afghanistan and you like the war in Iraq, you're really going to love going to war in Iran.

This would be an incredible destabilization of the region. It would lead to endless wars. I mean, I think this is what perpetual warfare is about. That our kids and our grandchildren will never see a time that there would be peace.

There would be asymmetrical response from Iran, from their allies all over the world. There would be bombings, there would be sniper attacks. You know, it is just unimaginable.

But here is what is very interesting. Is one of the great cheerleaders for the war in Iraq who is a part of the Bush administration then, John Bolton, of course, is now the major adviser, national security adviser today for President Trump. And once again, he has learned nothing.

In fact, he is one of the few people in the world who actually believes that the war in Iraq was a good decision. So I think that we have got to do everything that we can to see that we do not get involved in a war in Iran. I will do what I can in trying to get at least 51 members of the United States Senate to make it clear that going to war is not a presidential decision. The Constitution is clear. That power rests with the United States Congress and we've got to tell the president that this makes no sense at all.

COOPER: The Pentagon certainly makes contingency plans all the time. Shouldn't they have plans in place in order to be able to respond at a moment's notice?

SANDERS: Well, I don't think -- and this is not just the contingency plan. Trump has been very, very provocative towards Iran. He's trying to egg them on.

We are in a situation right now in that region where Trump loves Mohammad bin Salman, the murdering dictator of Saudi Arabia, and we're supposed to hate Iran.

Look, nobody believes that Iran is a model government. They are bad news people. It's -- they suppress democracy, they are a lot of corruption. They are involved in terrorism. This is not a great government.

But you know what? Saudi Arabia is no great shakes either. So we have picked sides and we have gone with the dictatorship and the brutal regime in Saudi Arabia, which treats women as third class citizens, which is now waging a terrible, terrible war in Yemen that we are part of.

So, what the function in my view of the United States government right now is to use our power and our strength to bring Saudi Arabia and Iran to the table, to try to create diplomatic solutions to the problems in the area, not to get involved in a horrible war, which will be never-ending, cost of hundreds of billions of dollars in human life, destabilize the region, makes no sense to me at all.

COOPER: James Clapper, the former director of national intelligence, said this morning if the U.S. presence in the region is bolstered, it could heighten the probability for an inadvertent encounter between Iranian and U.S. forces, almost an accidental slide into war.

SANDERS: Well, you know, let's remember, the answer is, yes, that can happen. When tension gets high, stupid things can happen and you have a president that might be trigger happy here or Bolton might be trigger happy, we're off and running.

And you know, what -- a lesson that we have -- should have learned a long time ago is the unintended consequences of war. And that if you think something's going to happen, but the result is very, very different. You know, going into Iraq, that was going to be a very, very quick war. We go in, establish democracy, we'd get out and everybody would live happily ever after.

Not exactly what happened. You know, I used to be the chairman of the veterans -- Senate Veterans Committee. And I have talked to so many veterans whose lives were changed for the worst with PTSD, amputations, and other problems as a result of that war.

So, we should have learned the lesson of Iraq and apparently at least John Bolton has not.

[20:25:01] COOPER: President Rouhani's advisers tweeted the president today, and you mentioned Bolton, the tweet said, you wanted a better deal with Iran. Looks like you're going to get a war instead. That's what happens when you listen to the mustache. I think it's an apparent reference to John Bolton.

Is this largely about Bolton's influence on the president, do you think?

SANDERS: You know, who knows? But I think it is. This is a guy who, you know, sad to say, again, he thinks he pushed -- he was one of the architects along with Dick Cheney of the war in Iraq.

I believe, if you speak to him today, he will tell you that was the right decision. And that has been his history. This is, I hesitate to use the word, a guy who likes war and apparently hasn't learned the lessons he should have learned.

COOPER: If you can, Senator, I would ask you to stick around, I need to take a quick break, but I want to ask you about the trade war that we've entered into China, where you see it heading.

We'll be right back.

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COOPER: Back now with Senator Bernie Sanders. I want to start with the tariff fight with China. Something the president today called a, quote, little squabble, unquote.

Senator Sanders, perhaps this is maybe where you come closest to agreeing with President Trump, because on trade policy, you've talked about support for tariffs against China.

[20:30:00]

I know you've said you disagree with how the president is implementing it. How should he be handling this?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, first thought, no, I don't agree with Donald Trump in terms of his trade policy. I think historically our trade policies have been a disaster for American workers. The permanent normal trade relations trade agreement has cost us some 3 million decent-paying jobs.

It's part of the race to the bottom where workers today are working longer hours for low wages because companies have threatened to shut down in America and move abroad. Farmers in the Midwest have been hurt very, very hard by these tariffs. So, no, I'm not in agreement with Trump on that.

What I do understand is that our trade policies in the past have failed. Last I saw -- the last numbers that I saw, we had about $400 billion trade deficit with China, which is not a good thing.

But what we need to do is to figure out a way that we develop a trade policy, which is fair for American workers, it is fair for our farmers, it is not written by the CEOs of large corporations, who then are throwing American workers out on the street. One of the ways, Anderson, that I think we have got to move, we have got to demand decent corporate citizenship of the major corporations in this country. You know, what's happening today and has happened for many, many years now is corporations that are making money shut down in America, move to low-wage countries, and then the next day they're in line to get government contracts.

They give themselves compensation packages for the CEOs that are 300 times what their workers are making. And I think we have got to say to those corporations, you know what, if you want a government contract, you're going to have to be a decent employer. Pay your workers a decent wage, allow them to form unions, if they want to. You just cannot continue to be as greedy as you have been.

COOPER: Before I let you go, I want to ask you about this idea of investigating the investigators. I spoke to James Comey last week. He doesn't think there's anything there, but he is for transparency. Obviously there's an inspector general investigation already ongoing.

Is there any harm making sure everything was done by the book and having this state's attorney general from -- or the state's attorney from Connecticut at the direction of Barr looking into it?

SANDERS: Well, look, this is what I think. Last I heard, six people associated with Trump's campaign were indicted. Cohen is now in jail. I think Manafort is either in jail or will be going to jail. And I think as Trump does all of the time, he tries to divert attention from the realities and the problems that are associated with the White House or in fact his campaign.

You know, as I understand it, what the FBI did is they had reason to believe that there was collusion and they investigated that collusion. So, no, I don't think we should be investigating the investigators. I think that's an effort on the part of Trump to deflect attention from the problems that his campaign had.

COOPER: Senator Sanders, appreciate your time. Thank you.

SANDERS: My pleasure.

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