MSNBC "Hardball" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Tulsi Gabbard

Interview

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MATTHEWS:  Welcome back to HARDBALL.
 
As I mentioned earlier, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange was arrested today for his alleged in hacking classified U.S. military files.  Assange spent the past seven years as you know living in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.  Well, American authorities are pushing to extradite him to the U.S.
 
And I`m joined right now by U.S. representative and 2020 presidential candidate, Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii.
 
Congresswoman, thank you for this.
 
REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Aloha, Chris.
 
MATTHEWS:  I wonder what you view is, because I don`t know exactly what is.  What do you make of our effort to extradite and -- well, indict and punish probably Julian Assange? 
 
GABBARD:  I`m deeply concerned by what`s happened today.  We look at the Obama decision during his time not to do this, not to try to extradite Assange and charge him because of their concern about how this government action would impinge on freedom of the press.  This is a blow to transparency and a blow to a free press when you have a situation where government, our government, is in a position where they can basically create this climate of fear against somebody or those who are publishing things that they don`t like or saying things they don`t like. 
 
And that`s the concern here.  This is a threat to journalists, but also something that threatens every American because the message that we are getting, that the American people are getting by what happened here today is be quiet, toe the line, otherwise there will be consequences. 
 
MATTHEWS:  What happens if the Mueller, if we got a good look at it next week and it`s not too heavily redacted, we got a look at it and shows that WikiLeaks, Assange himself worked with the Russians to put out attacks on the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton in 2016?  Is that journalism? 
 
GABBARD:  I don`t -- look, I don`t think it`s helpful for anyone to deal in hypotheticals.  I think it`s important and I`ve called from the very beginning for the Mueller report to be released so that we in Congress and the American people can take a look at it and see what`s in there. 
 
MATTHEWS:  OK, in an interview on CNBC, Mike Pence said that embattled Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro must go.  Let`s watch the vice president.
 
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
 
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  Well, over the past six years, the people of Venezuela have been suffering through deprivation and the dictatorship of Nicolas Maduro.  From the early days of this administration, President Trump has made it clear Nicolas Maduro has no legitimate claim to power and Nicolas Maduro must go. 
 
(END VIDEO CLIP)
 
MATTHEWS:  I wonder about the neocons, if they`re coming back, Congresswoman, and whether they see an opportunity in Latin America.  Do you think there is a real danger of a wag the dog situation?  You don`t like hypotheticals or here`s another one for you to knock off. 
 
But I mean, do you think they are up to something?  Everything is on the table and military action and everything.  The thought of the United States army going into Venezuela -- what do you make of it? 
 
GABBARD:  Yes.  Look, this administration and the neocon war hawks that surround President Trump have made no secret about what their intentions are to further this regime change effort both in Venezuela, as well as in Iran. 
 
MATTHEWS:  Yes.
 
GABBARD:  So, we are hearing the war drums beating.  President Trump is acting not with our interests in mind.  Not with the American people`s interest in mind, and moving forward with something that will prove to be very, very costly. 
 
MATTHEWS:  How did a guy -- I`m sorry I`m interrupting.  I don`t want to interrupt too much as I always do. 
 
But I want to ask you this question.  I am so hot to trot on this one.  How can a president who run against stupid wars -- and I love it when Trump said that -- I`m against stupid wars and he hired John Bolton?  You know, Sheldon Adelson`s guy, his pick. 
 
GABBARD:  Exactly.
 
MATTHEWS:  And wanted to bring Elliott Abrams back in Latin America.  I mean, what`s going on?  He brought the neos in to do their stuff again.  How do you explain that switch? 
 
GABBARD:  That`s a great question.  But the reality is that we are facing that we do have a situation with a cabinet full of neocon war hawks whose history is very well-known in leading our country into one regime change war after the other, and to great expense in American lives to trillions of dollars coming out of our taxpayer`s pockets, as well as the lives and the suffering and the devastation of the people in the countries where we waged these wars. 
 
MATTHEWS:  How can you explain to every major Democrat in the United States Congress?  I mean, the people I generally like, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, they all supported the Iraq War.  They all did, they haven`t apologized and I know about it. 
 
GABBARD:  Yes.
 
MATTHEWS:  They backed that stupid war.  Why?  Why do smart people back a stupid war?  And they did. 
 
GABBARD:  Look, you know, it`s unfortunate to see how the establishment in Washington, the military industrial complex so often goes and wages these regime change wars under the guise of humanitarianism and saying, well, we`re going to go and try to help people in these countries when in fact every single time what we see is, these regime change war that is our country leads increases the suffering of people in those countries, increasing the devastation and as we have seen in the Middle East and countries like Iraq and Libya and Syria, our regime change wars have made our country less safe by strengthening terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaeda. 
 
The real threat we are facing right now is existential threat with this heightening of tensions between the United States and countries like Russia and China, nuclear-armed countries, that propelled us into this new Cold War. 
 
MATTHEWS:  Thank you so much.
 
GABBARD:  This is a serious threat that we have got to address and that`s why I`m running for president to take this on. 
 
MATTHEWS:  As good of a reason as I ever heard.  Thank you so much, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. 

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