MSNBC "Hardball" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
The House Judiciary Committee`s sweeping demand for evidence marks a major escalation by Democrats investigating President Trump`s administration, his business and his family members.
The Judiciary Committee will focus on three areas of interest, obstruction of justice, public corruption, abuse of power. Among the 80-plus targets are the president`s oldest son, Donald Trump Jr. -- there he is -- Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg, and former White House counsel Don McGahn. Never thought he`d be on the list.
And the expanded investigation is also significant because the Judiciary Committee obviously has control over impeachment.
I`m joined right now by Democratic Senator and 2020 presidential candidate Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.
Senator, thank you for joining us.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Chris.
MATTHEWS: I want to ask you some big, broad questions to start with. Then we will get to the question of health care I know you`re working on, especially prescription drugs questions.
Let me ask you about this approach of -- I guess it`s the approach of Jerry Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary, the impeachment committee, potentially, and, of course, the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and others, that the smart move and the right move for Dems right now, the next year, perhaps, look into real investigations and find out the facts. Don`t be talking impeachment.
Your thoughts?
KLOBUCHAR: They have an obligation.
The American people in 2018 said that they wanted to see a check and balance on this White House, as well as an optimistic economic agenda. So, what I see is two things happening. You have to allow the Mueller investigation to be completed. We want to see that report public.
That has been a major focus of my work on the Judiciary Committee. We have a new attorney general who has not 100 percent committed to making that report public.
And then, of course, you`re going to see investigations about some of these potential campaign finance issues. You have a foreign power that`s been trying to not just meddle -- I hate that word -- that`s what I use when I call my daughter on a Saturday night to ask her what she`s doing.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
KLOBUCHAR: But invade our democracy.
And so I think that you can have both things going on. But, in the end, we also have to be a check on this administration when it comes to really worsening income inequality, to not doing anything about pharmaceutical prices, to not really moving an infrastructure package forward.
MATTHEWS: Well, I`m with you on all that.
But let me ask you a question about Deutch. Congressman Deutch was just on.
He said, basically, you can`t can rely on Mueller`s investigation, because Mueller might feel constricted. He can`t indict a president, if he believes that`s the truth and that`s -- that`s the standard. And you shouldn`t be talking about people`s guilt or innocence, unless you`re willing to indict them, that this whole problem with the president`s involvement in all these affairs could fall between the cracks.
If you can`t indict him, you can`t talk about him. Therefore, his report won`t have any information about him.
How do you respond to that?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, the Mueller investigation is so important, because it`s looking at the whole picture.
You have had dozens of people that have been investigated, indicted, and we have learned more and more about what Russia has done, and we hopefully will learn a lot more in that report.
Secondly, as these investigations go forward in the House, yes, there`s other things that will be looked into. But, as you know -- you have had other senators on your show, Chris -- we`re the jury when it comes to those kinds of issues. So we`re not going to opine on what the facts show at this moment.
But I think you can do two things at once. We`re Democrats. We can do that.
MATTHEWS: Well, meanwhile, the resolution to terminate President Trump`s so-called national emergency has now enough Republicans in your body to support -- actually to pass -- to stop it from passing.
Kentucky Republican Rand Paul said he`d vote on support of the resolution stopping the president, joining Maine`s Susan Collins, North Carolina`s Thom Tillis, and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.
Today, Senator Paul said there will likely be more defections from the president.
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SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I do believe that there is at least 10 Republican no-votes. We will see, possibly more.
My reason for speaking out now is that I think we all need to think this through before we get too far down the road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: If you can`t override the president with your rejection of the declaration of a national emergency, what good is accomplished here, Senator?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, Chris, this is very significant, though, because you have a number of Republicans now saying what I believe, that this is unconstitutional.
There was an agreement made in Congress, hard-fought agreement, on how much money should go toward border security, not paying for this wall that he has been talking about for years, and chanting about at rallies, but just smart security measures.
Instead, he goes forward with something that is unconstitutional, is going to create all kinds of eminent domain issues, takes money away from our military housing, and puts it into something to meet a campaign promise.
And so the fact that you have Republicans that are saying the same thing that we are saying is significant for our democracy. I think it`s a good thing.
MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about health care.
KLOBUCHAR: But you are right about overriding.
Keep going. Health care.
MATTHEWS: Let`s talk about health care. And you`re -- and I think you have shaped up a position which makes sense to a lot of people, not just moderates, but progressives, a lot of them, which is the idea, we`re -- where are we right now?
We have got Obamacare that`s got to be improved, fixed, so, everybody says, this is a good system, at least trying for a number of years to see if it works. Tell me how you would see that fit in with your whole concern about prescription drugs.
KLOBUCHAR: Right.
We have to get to universal health care. And, of course, I support a public option moving forward with Medicaid, Medicare expansion. But prescription drugs has been overlooked for years, really over the past decade, huge increases in prices for simple drugs like insulin.
And that is why I have led the effort on Medicare negotiation to unleash the power of 43 million seniors, and something I`m going to be talking about tomorrow with Robert Reich. We are doing a series of meetings tomorrow. And we`re doing a hearing in the Senate on antitrust.
And I know that sounds like kind of an esoteric topic, but it`s not. Big pharmaceuticals are literally paying off generics to keep their competitors off the market. And the ones that lose are consumers, to the tune of $2.9 billion just over a few years.
Online travel agencies, 83 -- over 90 percent of the market that is owned in that range -- and I want to get the exact number for you -- owned by actually two companies, rail, class one rail, down to four companies, the exact number on the Monopoly board.
And this consolidation that we`re seeing in our country cries out for tougher action on antitrust. And if they`re not going to do it because the judges are too conservative, I have a bill that makes our laws as sophisticated as the kind of mergers that we`re seeing now, with monopsonies and with companies that literally are now billion-, multibillion-dollar mergers.
And the American people have stood up to this in the past. It`s time to stand up to it again.
MATTHEWS: It sounds like you`re for true free enterprise. That sounds like
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: That is what this is about. You can`t have capitalism and innovation if you have monopolies.
And that is something Adam Smith recognized. I`m actually -- I`m going to come out with a book on this, something I have been working on for the past year with Knopf, a book on the history of this going back to Teddy Roosevelt, when, as you know, in the Midwest, the farmers and the workers stood up and said, enough is enough.
And we have been gliding towards the Gilded Age again. And we need to get back, yes, to the true capitalist spirit of entrepreneurship. And that`s what this hearing is about tomorrow.
MATTHEWS: OK.
Amy Klobuchar, trustbuster, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
KLOBUCHAR: There you go.
Thank you.
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