CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Murphy

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

TAPPER: Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. He's also a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: Yes, thanks for having me.

TAPPER: So, I want to start with this crisis in Virginia with the three top officials.

And, specifically, I want to ask you about one that's very pressing this weekend. Lieutenant Governor Fairfax has called for an investigation into the allegations against him from two women, citing the need for due process.

He added -- quote -- "Our American values don't just work when it's convenient. They must be applied at the most difficult of times."

Many Democrats have called for him to step down in light of these allegations of sexual assault of 2004, alleged, and a rape, alleged, in 2000.

What's your standard for determining whether or not somebody should have to resign?

MURPHY: Well, these are very serious allegations, when you're talking about sexual assault and rape.

And the question is whether he can continue to perform his duties while he is trying to litigate these very serious claims. And, you know, I tend to defer to people like Tim Kaine and Mark Warner when it comes to Virginia politics. They've called on him to step down. That certainly seems to be the right move for me.

Again, these are very serious allegations. And it's just not clear to me how he can continue to do his job while he's trying to contest these claims.

TAPPER: I guess the argument he's -- he's making here is, he deserves due process, like anyone else deserves due process.

And I just wonder what the standard is, because, you know, I don't think we've really ever had a national conversation. Obviously, it's great that society has evolved, and now we're taking accusation made by women seriously, and that didn't used to be the case.

But, by the same token, is it just one credible accusation? Is it more than one credible accusation? Where does due process fall into it? I just don't think that there's any one standard.

MURPHY: Well, I think the nature of the allegations do matter. And these allegations are serious.

One of these allegations is an allegation of rape. That's a crime that you can go to jail for, for a very long time. And so I think that you have to look at the circumstances of every case. These are serious.

[09:30:00]

TAPPER: Meanwhile, the government is just five days away from another potential government shutdown. Democrats have previously vowed not to give the president any money for any wall but there's this group of bipartisan lawmakers working on a compromise that according to sources could include up to $2 billion if not more for border barriers. Whatever you want to call them. A wall, border barriers.

Is it fair to assume that Democrats will end up supporting at least some funding for some sort of barrier at the border at the end of the day?

MURPHY: Well, you know, the budget bill that we passed in the Senate through a committee last year provided for $1.6 billion in new border security money and, of course, members of the Senate have voted in the past for border security money, including barrier funding. I think the problem now is we've only got about seven months left on the fiscal year. So I don't think the president can actually spend much more than $2 billion, but, of course, we're willing to compromise. Of course we're willing to put more money into border security.

I'll be interested to see what the compromise looks like before I commit to voting for it or against it. The real tragedy here, Jake, is that we should be able to do a bigger comprehensive immigration reform bill and the president two years ago had the ability to take 25 billion dollars for border security in exchange for protection for the dreamers and didn't take it. I hope we can have that bigger conversation some time soon.

TAPPER: Well, I think you would argue that it was authorized but not appropriated but I don't want to get into the weeds of all of that.

Back in October, you and the rest of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee invoked a law that requires President Trump to determine whether or not the Saudi crown prince, MBS, was responsible, directly or indirectly for the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. That deadline came and went on Friday with no response from the White House. The White House saying that the president -- quote -- "maintains his discretion to decline to act on congressional committee's request when appropriate."

Your response?

MURPHY: This isn't an informal committee request. The law requires that when the chairman and the ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee ask the president to make a finding as to a human rights violation overseas, he has to respond. He has to respond. That's what the law says. He doesn't have an option here.

Now I understand why he doesn't want to make this determination. His intelligence services are telling him that Mohammed bin Salman was responsible and because either of a personal relationship he has or a business relationship he has with Saudi Arabia, he is declining to make that finding to Congress. But this isn't his general executive discretion. He has to, under the law --

TAPPER: He didn't.

MURPHY: -- make a determination and he didn't.

TAPPER: So what now?

MURPHY: Listen, I assume we can go to court to try to make the president comply with this law. We can raise political pressure as we will this year. Or we can move forward with sanctions. And I think that's probably the most appropriate step.

Congress doesn't have to wait for the president to fulfill his duty. We can just make a determination that Mohammed bin Salman ordered these murders and there should be some kind of penalty and repercussion for that.

MURPHY: Speaking of murky situations with the Saudis. Amazon founder Jeff Bezos wrote an extraordinary essay on Medium this week accusing the "National Enquirer" parent company of trying to extort him over explicit photographs sent to his extra marital girlfriend. In that essay Bezos refers to -- quote -- "the Saudi angle."

He seems to be suggesting he and his team seems to be suggesting the Saudis had something to do with the "National Enquirer" obtaining these explicit photographs. What do you make of it?

MURPHY: I really don't know what to make of it. So I'm hoping that the Saudis have nothing to do with it. It's a very oblique reference so it's hard for policymakers to understand.

But what we do know is that foreign governments are constantly trying to infiltrate the American political process. And one of the reasons why we worry about President Trump not taking a stronger stand on what the Russians did in 2016 is that it seems to be an invitation for others to try to manipulate our political process in other ways. So I don't know anything about Jeff Bezos' sort of oblique claims, but I know that this is a constant problem that we have to be vigilant about.

TAPPER: You co-sponsored a resolution outlining a green new deal in the Senate this week that calls for a sweeping overhaul of the entire U.S. economy in 10 years by -- quote -- "meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable and zero emission energy sources."

A fellow senator who caucuses with the Democrats, independent senator Angus King of Maine as well as Obama's former energy secretary Ernest Moniz say they don't think that this plan is realistic.

MURPHY: I think it's absolutely realistic and I frankly think we need to set our sights high. I think there are a lot of people who said that it wasn't realistic for the United States to get a man on the moon by the end of the 1960s when President Kennedy initially outlined that goal. But we did it. And I think we have to set our sights high.

I have a 10-year-old and 7-year-old. Global warming is an existential threat to the planet. And so if we don't command this country to think big about saving our nation and our world from destruction, then I don't think we're going to get close to meeting the mark.

[09:35:01]

TAPPER: All right. I have a lot more questions about the green new deal. Hopefully you can come back --

MURPHY: Will do.

TAPPER: -- talk to me during the week or another Sunday. Senator Murphy, thanks so much for being here.

MURPHY: Thanks, Jake.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source