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NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mike Lee

Interview

By: Mike Lee

Date: Nov. 25, 2018

Issues: National Security Foreign Affairs Judicial Branch

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah. He is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Lee, welcome back to Meet the Press. I hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving holiday break.

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

Thank you very much.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me start with the president's back and forth with the chief justice. It was really the heads of two branches I think having a debate about the Constitution perhaps and I feel as if that's in your wheelhouse. So let me ask you, what was your reaction to the president's dismissiveness of the rebuke that Chief Justice Roberts gave to him about how the judiciary works and how it should be represented by public officials?

SEN. MIKE LEE:

Look, it's not entirely unprecedented for a president of the United States or another public official to criticize court rulings, in some cases, Supreme Court rulings, as President Obama aggressively criticized the Supreme Court's ruling in the Citizens United case. Now look, this isn't my style. I get very uncomfortable.

CHUCK TODD:

He didn't call them "Bush justices" though, did he?

SEN. MIKE LEE:

No, he didn't. But, you know, I served with a number of colleagues in the Senate, including some on the Judiciary Committee who routinely accuse the current Supreme Court of being in the pocket of big business in the United States of America. This makes me feel uncomfortable too. I'm a lawyer by training and as a lawyer, I try to express disagreement about the courts without impugning the court's motives whenever I can.

CHUCK TODD:

This seems --

SEN. MIKE LEE:

But as a president of the United States, he certainly has the right to express his opinion on these things.

CHUCK TODD:

The problem is, when he speaks, he carries with him a big following that goes down these rabbit holes with him. He's gone after the judiciary, he's gone after the integrity of our election systems, he's now again contradicting his own CIA, the Justice Department, the free press, we, I could go on and on. You rebuke him rhetorically quite a bit when he does these things. But his behavior never changes. Do you ask yourself what's the point in rebuking him?

SEN. MIKE LEE:

Well, he has been elected president of the United States. We all know that he has an unconventional style, he has a different approach than other people have taken to this job. But he is in fact the president of the United States and it's some of these same styles that helped get him elected in the first place. And so what I can do for my part as a United States senator is to help steer him in a direction that I think is consistent with his policies and in the best interest of the American people. I do think for what it's worth --

CHUCK TODD:

Do you have a breaking point? Do you have a breaking point?

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

Oh sure. Look, any time somebody violates the Constitution, I'm going to call them out on it and do what I can from my position as a member of the U.S. Senate to stop it. But I do think, to the president's credit, and to what you were saying a few minutes ago about the need for a president to pivot after an election perhaps didn't go his way during a midterm, I think President Trump is doing that. Sometimes with this president, you've got to look not just at what he says, but also at what he does. Look at the fact that in the days following the midterm election, President Trump has come out aggressively for criminal justice reform. This is a big bipartisan opportunity. And I look forward to getting it done.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to ask you something about what you said though recently. You said that you were so worried about political rhetoric and the rancor and that it's reached such a fever pitch that you said, quote, "It's going to drive our politics toward violence. Ultimately, this will come down to a binary choice, federalism or violence." That's a pretty extreme diagnosis of the current problem.

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

It's not extreme. In fact, it's probably the least controversial speech I've given in a long time. Look, according to a recent poll conducted by NPR, 80% of Americans believe that our political divisiveness in this country, especially at a national level is driving us to a point that could result in violence. This is a real, legitimate concern. It's one of the reasons why the Founding Fathers were right in setting up a government that at the national level would be in charge of only a few things that are distinctively unavoidably, and by designation of the Constitution, mandated to be at the national level while reserving all other powers for states and localities. Recognizing there's a whole lot more agreement on a regional basis, on a state by state, or community-by-community basis, than there will ever be at the national level. And I think that is the best way, it may well be the only way, to avoid some of this divisiveness.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to speak to the issue with Saudi Arabia. Here was the president pushing back on the C.I.A. assessment. Not necessarily a conclusion, but it's their best, it's an assessment of high confidence that the crown prince in Saudi Arabia ordered the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Here's the president responding to it.

[BEGIN TAPE]

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:

It's a very important ally. And if we go by a certain standard, we won't be able to have allies with almost any country.

REPORTER:

Who should be held accountable?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:

Maybe the world should be held accountable because the world is a vicious place. The world is a very, very vicious place.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Here's what Fred Ryan, the publisher of The Washington Post, wrote in response to the president's dismissal of the C.I.A. assessment. "A clear and dangerous message has been sent to tyrants around the world: Flash enough money in front of the president of the United States, and you can literally get away with murder." Is he right?

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

I disagree with the president's assessment. It's inconsistent with the intelligence I've seen. Now look, I don't have access to everything the president sees. I'm not sure what he's relying on. The intelligence I've seen suggests that this was ordered by the crown prince and is yet another reason why I've been pushing and why I joined forces with Bernie Sanders back in February to get us out of fighting Saudi Arabia's civil war effort in Yemen against the Houthis. I think this is yet another indication that this unauthorized, unconstitutional war, from our standpoint, is not something that we ought to be fighting. This is not an ally that deserves this kind of military intervention, especially because there's been no connection between the safety of the American people and our involvement in this war. It's one of the reasons why we've got to get out now. And I believe this is an opportunity for the Congress to weigh in and say, let's, let's halt our efforts in Yemen.

CHUCK TODD:

Is it fair to ask the question, what is the president's motives behind siding with the Saudis and is it, should Congress look in to see if he's got financial motivations into why he might be siding with the Saudis over the CIA.?

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

Look, I don't know why he's siding with the Saudis. But I think there are things we can do to change our relationship with the Saudis, notwithstanding whatever his personal motivations might be. I'm also certain that in the next Congress, people will look into that. But again, I think Congress has to take some ownership of U.S. foreign policy, especially as it relates to our intervention in this war. Our unconstitutional fighting of a civil war in Yemen that has never been declared by the U.S. Congress is a problem. And that's on us.

CHUCK TODD:

Final question, I'm curious your reaction to the climate report. This is from the federal government, Congress, you guys ordered the federal government to do this. And let me give you, read you one of the conclusions, "With continued growth and emissions had historic rates, annual losses in some economic sectors are projected to reach hundreds of billions of dollars by the end of the century, more than the current gross domestic product of many U.S. states." Essentially, this document isn't just painting a picture of an environmental catastrophe that's coming, but an economic catastrophe. What are you going to do about it in the U.S. Congress, senator?

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

Well, first of all, I look forward to digging into the report and listening to what other experts on the outside have to say about it. I think it's important, any time we take a report like that to examine what public policies they might have in mind. What public policies that could be brought forward that would address the problem they're addressing, without simultaneously devastating the U.S. economy. There's no question that for a variety of reasons, and regardless of where one stands on the issue of climate change, that the burning of fossil fuels does emit into the environment a number of things that aren't the healthiest for planet Earth.

CHUCK TODD:Should we put a price on carbon? Are you open to a carbon tax? Are you open to a carbon tax?

SENATOR MIKE LEE:

No, no, no. I'm not. And all the proposals I've seen so far that would address any of these issues would devastate the U.S. economy and have little or no benefit that is demonstrable from our standpoint. And so I have yet to see a proposal that would bring this about. I think if we're going to move away from fossil fuels, it's got to be done through innovation. And innovation can be choked out through excessive government regulation. We can't let that happen.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, Senator Mike Lee, we had a busy morning. We got to a lot today. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on and I hope you enjoyed your holiday weekend.

SENATOR MIKE LEE:Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

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NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mike Lee

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SHORT_DATE_FORMAT	`'m/d/Y'`
SIGNING_BACKEND	`'django.core.signing.TimestampSigner'`
SILENCED_SYSTEM_CHECKS	`['models.E007', 'fields.E311', 'fields.E903']`
SIMPLE_JWT	`{'ACCESS_TOKEN_LIFETIME': '******************', 'REFRESH_TOKEN_LIFETIME': '******************'}`
SITE_ID	`1`
SOCIAL_AUTH_BACKEND_ERROR_URL	`'/login'`
SOCIAL_AUTH_RAISE_EXCEPTIONS	`False`
STAFF_PHOTO_PATH	`'images/staff'`
STATICFILES_DIRS	`['/var/www/justfacts/assets']`
STATICFILES_FINDERS	`['django.contrib.staticfiles.finders.FileSystemFinder', 'django.contrib.staticfiles.finders.AppDirectoriesFinder']`
STATICFILES_STORAGE	`'django.contrib.staticfiles.storage.StaticFilesStorage'`
STATIC_ROOT	`'/var/www/justfacts/static/'`
STATIC_URL	`'/static/'`
TEMPLATES	`[{'APP_DIRS': True, 'BACKEND': 'django.template.backends.django.DjangoTemplates', 'DIRS': ['/var/www/justfacts/templates', '/var/www/justfacts/sidebyside/sidebyside_react_app/'], 'OPTIONS': {'context_processors': ['django.template.context_processors.debug', 'django.template.context_processors.request', 'django.contrib.auth.context_processors.auth', 'django.contrib.messages.context_processors.messages']}}]`
TESTING	`False`
TEST_NON_SERIALIZED_APPS	`[]`
TEST_RUNNER	`'django.test.runner.DiscoverRunner'`
THOUSAND_SEPARATOR	`','`
TIME_FORMAT	`'P'`
TIME_INPUT_FORMATS	`['%H:%M:%S', '%H:%M:%S.%f', '%H:%M']`
TIME_ZONE	`'UTC'`
TWITTER_CONSUMER_KEY	`'********************'`
TWITTER_CONSUMER_SECRET	`'********************'`
USE_I18N	`True`
USE_L10N	`True`
USE_THOUSAND_SEPARATOR	`False`
USE_TZ	`False`
USE_X_FORWARDED_HOST	`False`
USE_X_FORWARDED_PORT	`False`
WSGI_APPLICATION	`'justfacts_project.wsgi.application'`
X_FRAME_OPTIONS	`'DENY'`
YEAR_MONTH_FORMAT	`'F Y'`

Variable	Value
`'__utmmobile'`	`'14f1b6b2-1a12-45b3-9547-278e98e6bafe'`
`'csrftoken'`	`'zTLa2PBzyzNbB17OlwyLNi2SCT4rQC1Mir7rb4ZHDtCT8cYBLWiz795zJkRKCOY2'`
`'sessionid'`	`'gAWVGwAAAAAAAAB9lIwSZ2FfY2FtcGFpZ25fcGFyYW1zlH2Ucy4:1vd6TW:sVk6JG8X-_EB-GPsC-4D1iTeFQG15lR8Ybcd_0BylyE'`

Signal	Receivers
class_prepared
connection_created	register_type_handlers
got_request_exception
m2m_changed
post_delete
post_init	ImageField.update_dimension_fields, ImageField.update_dimension_fields, ImageField.update_dimension_fields
post_migrate	create_permissions, create_contenttypes, create_default_site
post_save	create_user_profile, TagField._save
pre_delete	clear_site_cache
pre_init
pre_migrate	inject_rename_contenttypes_operations
pre_save	clear_site_cache, set_zip4_userprofile
request_finished	close_old_connections, close_caches, reset_urlconf
request_started	reset_queries, close_old_connections
setting_changed	reset_cache, clear_cache_handlers, update_installed_apps, update_connections_time_zone, clear_routers_cache, reset_template_engines, clear_serializers_cache, language_changed, localize_settings_changed, file_storage_changed, complex_setting_changed, root_urlconf_changed, static_storage_changed, static_finders_changed, auth_password_validators_changed, user_model_swapped, update_toolbar_config, reset_hashers, reload_api_settings, reload_api_settings, uninstall_if_needed, clear_caches, FileSystemStorage._clear_cached_properties, FileSystemStorage._clear_cached_properties, FileSystemStorage._clear_cached_properties, FileSystemStorage._clear_cached_properties, StaticFilesStorage._clear_cached_properties

Path	Location
.DS_Store	/var/www/justfacts/assets/.DS_Store
.well-known/apple-developer-merchantid-domain-association	/var/www/justfacts/assets/.well-known/apple-developer-merchantid-domain-association
pdfs/Mobile_Messaging_Terms_and_conditions.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/Mobile_Messaging_Terms_and_conditions.pdf
pdfs/CNIP-signed-bylaws-2023.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/CNIP-signed-bylaws-2023.pdf
pdfs/PolicyforFundraisingandGiftAcceptance_1.3_Edition.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/PolicyforFundraisingandGiftAcceptance_1.3_Edition.pdf
pdfs/CNIP2018.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/CNIP2018.pdf
pdfs/CNIP2019.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/CNIP2019.pdf
pdfs/2021/162017-Vote Smart-Brochure-Proof.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/2021/162017-Vote Smart-Brochure-Proof.pdf
pdfs/2021/990-2021.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/2021/990-2021.pdf
pdfs/2020/CNIP2020.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/2020/CNIP2020.pdf
pdfs/2020/Vote-Smart-FY21-Audit-Report-Final-Signed.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/2020/Vote-Smart-FY21-Audit-Report-Final-Signed.pdf
pdfs/2020/VoteSmartbrochure.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/2020/VoteSmartbrochure.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_New_Jersey_State_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_New_Jersey_State_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Mississippi_State_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Mississippi_State_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Virginia_State_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Virginia_State_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Kentucky_State_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Kentucky_State_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Louisiana_State_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/2023_states/2023_Louisiana_State_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MS_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MS_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_IN_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_IN_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_AL_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_AL_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_WY_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_WY_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NY_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NY_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NJ_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NJ_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_SC_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_SC_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MA_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MA_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NM_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NM_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NB_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NB_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MD_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MD_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MO_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MO_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MINN_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MINN_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_AZ_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_AZ_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_PA_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_PA_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OK_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OK_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OH_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OH_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NV_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_NV_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_WA_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_WA_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_FL_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_FL_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MI_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_MI_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_CO_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_CO_PCT.pdf
pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OR_PCT.pdf	/var/www/justfacts/assets/pdfs/forcandidates/states/2022_OR_PCT.pdf

Path	Location
admin/img/icon-no.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-no.svg
admin/img/README.txt	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/README.txt
admin/img/icon-yes.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-yes.svg
admin/img/inline-delete.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/inline-delete.svg
admin/img/selector-icons.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/selector-icons.svg
admin/img/icon-calendar.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-calendar.svg
admin/img/search.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/search.svg
admin/img/LICENSE	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/LICENSE
admin/img/icon-unknown.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-unknown.svg
admin/img/icon-viewlink.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-viewlink.svg
admin/img/icon-changelink.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-changelink.svg
admin/img/calendar-icons.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/calendar-icons.svg
admin/img/icon-alert.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-alert.svg
admin/img/icon-unknown-alt.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-unknown-alt.svg
admin/img/tooltag-add.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/tooltag-add.svg
admin/img/icon-addlink.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-addlink.svg
admin/img/sorting-icons.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/sorting-icons.svg
admin/img/icon-clock.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-clock.svg
admin/img/icon-deletelink.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/icon-deletelink.svg
admin/img/tooltag-arrowright.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/tooltag-arrowright.svg
admin/img/gis/move_vertex_off.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/gis/move_vertex_off.svg
admin/img/gis/move_vertex_on.svg	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/img/gis/move_vertex_on.svg
admin/fonts/README.txt	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/fonts/README.txt
admin/fonts/LICENSE.txt	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/fonts/LICENSE.txt
admin/fonts/Roboto-Regular-webfont.woff	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/fonts/Roboto-Regular-webfont.woff
admin/fonts/Roboto-Light-webfont.woff	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/fonts/Roboto-Light-webfont.woff
admin/fonts/Roboto-Bold-webfont.woff	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/fonts/Roboto-Bold-webfont.woff
admin/js/SelectFilter2.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/SelectFilter2.js
admin/js/nav_sidebar.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/nav_sidebar.js
admin/js/core.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/core.js
admin/js/popup_response.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/popup_response.js
admin/js/collapse.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/collapse.js
admin/js/autocomplete.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/autocomplete.js
admin/js/change_form.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/change_form.js
admin/js/jquery.init.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/jquery.init.js
admin/js/calendar.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/calendar.js
admin/js/urlify.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/urlify.js
admin/js/cancel.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/cancel.js
admin/js/prepopulate_init.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/prepopulate_init.js
admin/js/actions.js	/usr/local/lib/python3.12/dist-packages/django/contrib/admin/static/admin/js/actions.js