MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Chris Murphy

Interview

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HAYES: And joining me now Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut,  a member  of the foreign relations committee, who wrote about Saudi Arabia`s behavior  in a fantastic Washington Post op-ed.
Senator, I want to read to you what the president of the United States just  said about the evidence that appears quite significant that the Saudis  murdered Jamal Khashoggi. "I think we have to find out what happened  first. Here we go again with, you know, you`re guilty until proven  innocent. I don`t like that. We just went through that with Justice  Kavanaugh and he was innocent all the way as far as I`m concerned."
What do you think?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D) CONNECTICUT: So we`re comparing the standard to  select a Supreme Court justice to the standard to assess whether a U.S.  resident has been butchered in a Saudi consulate abroad. This is  bordering upon the surreal. And the fact of the matter is, the Saudis have  now had two weeks to give us any evidence that Khashoggi left. We have all  of this leaked reporting from the Turks suggesting that something truly  awful happened inside that consulate.

And I think we have to ask some questions now why, you know, our president  is volunteering himself as the chief PR agent for the Saudi government.  The Saudis didn`t have to leak the story, but maybe it was rogue agents  that carried out this likely murder, because the president of the United  States  was the one who floated it to the world.

And when this is all said and done, and we likely learn that something did  happen to Khashoggi, very terrible and gruesome inside that consulate,  we`re all going to have to ask ourselves why the president has volunteered  himself to do work that you would normally expect the Saudis to have to do  on their own.

HAYES: And there was also, today, Mike Pompeo, whose dispatched there.  And really appears -- you know, he`s seen smiling with Mohammad bin Salman,  appearing to laugh. He releases a statement he thinks they`re really  committed to transparency. I mean, what is that?

MURPHY: I mean, just think of what`s happening here. The Saudis have  potentially killed a U.s. resident. And it`s not them coming to us to  apologize, it`s our secretary of state traveling to them. And the message  that that is sending is just so bonechilling.

Somehow U.S. arm sales have become other countries` leverage over us when,  in fact, arm sales should be our leverage over them. Other countries  should be pressing to stay in our good graces in order to be a recipient of  the most advanced and lethal weapons of the world. Instead, it appears  that when we sell another country weapons, w have to prostrate ourselves  before them. That`s a message that is going to be picked up by the rest of  the world with potentially really devastating consequences for U.S.  national security.

HAYES: Speaking of those arms sales, you have been very vocal about the  Saudi-led war in Yemen, which now threatens millions of people with famine,  is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, including  children being backed fully by the Trump administration.

Is this a moment to finally end U.S. support for that war?

MURPHY: So, I think it has to. I would, of course, make a case that the U.S. support for the death of thousands of civilians inside Yemen is reason enough to stop our support for the Saudi bombing campaign there.
But there is a direct connection, Chris. We have been relying on the  Saudis to represent to us that they aren`t intentionally killing civilians  inside Yemen. All of the evidence tells us different, but we have believed  them. We now have the Saudis telling us on the record that they didn`t  kill Jamal Khashoggi, and it appears that they did.

And so why believe them about what they`re telling us inside Yemen when  they`re clearly lying to us, or apparently lying about Khashoggi.

So, I think you can draw a link between the two. And I would imagine that  there is not support, Republican or Democrat, in the Senate and the House,  to continue arms sales for the Yemen bombing campaign.

HAYES: There`s some, I think, justified skepticism about Turkish  intelligence sources. Obviously, the Erdogan government itself has acted  in an authoritarian fashion. His thugs beat up Americans on the streets of  Washington, D.C. outside the Turkish embassy. It also seems like the Turks  have a lot of evidence. What is your understanding of what the Turkish  government is doing, because they seem to be escalating every time the  Trump administration and bin Salman try to kind of get their stories  straight?

MURPHY: So, the Turkish government does not have clean hands here. They  have been leaking information apparently without sharing all of it with  U.S. sources. And at some point we need them to show us all of their  cards.

There has been some reporting suggesting that the Turks may be holding  back, because they are  trying to cut some side deal with the Saudis maybe over the future of Saudi  relations with Qatar. They may be trying to reconcile Saudi Arabia and  Qatar and trying to do a deal by which they don`t release some of the tapes  if there is some agreement.

But the Turks need to give us what they have. And frankly it doesn`t seem  that the Trump administration is pressing the Turks very hard to give us  that information given how little Donald Trump seems to know and how much  news reporters know who are in touch with Turkish sources.

HAYES: It also seems entirely plausible that the president of the United  States and the Saudi  regime conclude that there were some rogue elements, it was an extradition  gone wrong and then the Turks leak a tape of the guy being murdered,  literally.

MURPHY: Right. And, you know, again, the Saudis have been on the record  over and over denying that anything happened inside the consulate.

HAYES: Right.

MURPHY: Telling the world that he left. And so even if they come up with  some story that suggests it was a rogue element of friends of the crown  prince who did this, we shouldn`t forget that they lied to the world…

HAYES: Right.

MURPHY: …for weeks telling us he actually left the consulate, which should maybe cause us to doubt the sincerity of the news story whenever that emerges.

HAYES: All right, Senator Chris Murphy, as always, thanks for your time.

MURPHY: Thanks.

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