MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
Interview
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MELBER: Breaking news right now. The Senate judiciary committee Republicans have just now formally announced when there will be a vote on Brett Kavanaugh. It is now scheduled for Friday morning, 9:30 A.M. That`s one day after this blockbuster hearing that`s scheduled for the accuser to testify. I have this right here and it`s quite clear from Chairman Grassley saying the Brett Kavanaugh nomination will be voted on, according to this schedule, on Friday morning. That is a big deal because it would suggest not a lot of time to process or fact check or follow up on whatever is learned in the Thursday hearing.
Let`s get right to it. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse will be questioning Kavanaugh and the accuser on Thursday. Senator, is Friday enough time between the hearing and a vote on this nomination?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D-R) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Of course not but for the Republicans, that`s not the issue.
MELBER: What is the issue?
WHITEHOUSE: The issue is try to get through this as quickly as they can. They`re kind of between a rock and a hard place with very powerful, big donors who want a Supreme Court Justice who they think will be reliable for the Republican big donors and they`ve got witnesses who have come forward making a lot of really serious allegations. And it looks like they`d rather roll the witnesses than roll their donors. So get the pain over as quickly as possible I think is the solution for them.
MELBER: The pain over quickly is the idea that more time and more pain could make it even harder to get the vote through. How do you explain to viewers watching -- you`re closer to it than most of us. You are sitting in the room with these other senators. You are making your own judgments. How do you explain a process that seems to try to pretend or evoke a notion of fairness that the accuser gets to testify, and then seems to undo it with an announcement like this right now around 6:20 P.M. on the East Coast that they`re basically going to hold the vote the next day with no time to process anything?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, the basic flaw in the Republican strategy has been that they`ve tried to set up the notion that if both sides get to say their piece, then that`s fairness and that`s the end of the story, don`t look behind the curtain. And, of course, what`s behind the curtain is that in any trial, in any administrative proceeding, in any prosecution, in any grand jury investigation, when you get a witness who comes in with a story like these women have, your first obligation to them and to the process is to do a proper, thorough, sincere investigation.
Nobody takes a witness who claims she was the victim of sexual assault and just throws them up on the witness stand without any sincere or thorough effort to look into and try to corroborate, or explode, their claims. So the original sin of the Republican strategy was to allow for no investigation of any of this, to shut down the FBI background investigation, and to do nothing but the most partisan, insincere, and tenuous efforts on the committee side, the non-investigation investigation. So that`s been the problem.
MELBER: When you look at that, it`s coupled with this somewhat unusual decision to have a mystery questioner instead of the Republican side. So go ahead, sir.
WHITEHOUSE: Talking about a vote -
MELBER: You`ll be doing normal questions and they`ll be deferring what you`re sort of saying an entirety to this questioner?
WHITEHOUSE: Yes, talk about a vote of no confidence in your own team`s ability to get on the field and ask questions without blowing themselves up in terms of mistreatment of the witnesses and so forth. If they don`t trust their own 11 white male Republican Senators to ask questions without blowing up and they`ve got to bring in a ringer to cover for them, that tells you all you need to know.
MELBER: A ringer as you put it, here`s Republican Senator Corker`s view of it. Take a look.
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MELBER: Senator?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, looks like Bob and I agree.
MELBER: Well, when you talk about "Insensitive", he`s almost reducing it. What we saw from people by the way very clearly in both parties, men in both parties in the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, really it didn`t make the Senate look like a responsible institution at that time.
WHITEHOUSE: No, it didn`t. But what you`ve got to remember --
MELBER: Let`s take a look at that. Let me show you that and then I`ll get your response. Take a look.
WHITEHOUSE: Yes, go ahead.
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MELBER: Senator, if they`re trying to avoid that, what will it look like on Thursday to have one person do the party`s entire questioning? Is that what you expect to happen?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, probably better than that. But we shouldn`t overlook the fact that the two biggest abuses that they have done to these witnesses have been, first, to deny them the basic courtesy of investigation. And second, to mount this smear campaign attack because there is no universe in which you can both treat these women as sincere witnesses who deserve to be listened to, and at the same time say that they`re part of an orchestrated smear campaign. It`s one or the other and they`re trying to have it both ways.
So pitching these witnesses into the pit of nothing but a smear campaign, nothing but an orchestrated effort, completely deprecates what they have to say. You throw on top of that the fact that they wouldn`t investigate any of these facts so they can`t produce corroboration for what they have to say. And the whole thing is a setup. And frankly, Ms. Blasey Ford is very courageous to take the step that she did to walk into this setup and try to give it her best shot.
MELBER: And finally, I wanted to ask you, as a member of the committee who is assessing this nominee for the high court, he made a big deal of emphasizing how non-partisan he is and how as a judge he only looks at the law and he only looks at the facts. He doesn`t look at the red or the blue or the politics of ideology. Do you think any of that has been undermined by his very unusual decision to come out and defend his nomination with a single appearance on "Fox News" and no other public appearance or media?
WHITEHOUSE: And also very harsh comments about the witnesses lined up perfectly with the rhetoric that the Republicans are using. He is now in absolute rhetorical symmetry with the Republicans which doesn`t exactly look very bipartisan or neutral. But you know what, actually worse than that is the fact that he is complicit, for a guy who says that he`s all about fair process, in this very rigged and setup process.
He could at any moment have said, "Look, I`m going on the Supreme Court, I`ve got to stand for rule of law, and these people who I disagree with and who I think are wrong are at least entitled to a modicum of sincere investigation." And I`m simply not going to go forward and take the oath of office until we do this right. I`m not going to be running the Supreme Court on a wave of abuse of witnesses. And he`s been very happy to have that happen.
MELBER: So if I understand you right, you`re saying that his response to this, that his approach to procedure, to dealing with claims, to as you quoted him, to fairness, is itself a cause for concern separate from adjudicating the underlying allegation and its veracity?
WHITEHOUSE: Correct. You`ve got to live your values. And if your values are that you respect process and think that women who claim to have been the victims of a sexual assault should have their day and should have an investigation to support and potentially corroborate their stories, then you got to live that. You can`t have it that way out in some other world but when it comes to your own hearing you`re happy to be a part of and complicit in a ramrod effort.
MELBER: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse on a busy time for your committee, thank you for coming on THE BEAT.
WHITEHOUSE: Good to be with you.
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