MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Interview with Chris Coons

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Well, if confirmed, Kavanaugh would solidify a hard-right  majority on the Supreme Court and would rule on pivotal issues, like, of  course, abortion rights, gun rights, and whether or not a president can be  investigated -- or, indicted, rather.

And another unexpected moment, this image of Fred Guttenberg, whose  daughter Jaime was murdered during the Parkland shooting, reaching out to  shake the judge`s hand as he turned away.

Well, that doesn`t look good. There it is. Watch this. He looks at the  guy, and then he just walks away from him.

Well, the White House issue this response to that image -- quote -- "As  Judge Kavanaugh left for his lunch break, an unidentified individual  approached him. Before the judge was able to shake his hand, security had  intervened."

For more, I`m joined by Senator Chris Coons, Democrat from Delaware. He`s  on the Judiciary.

What did you make of that incident? Is it important or not that the  nominee for the Supreme Court wouldn`t give time to a guy who happened to  be the father of one of the victims of Parkland High?

COONS: Well, he came over and spoke with me and a number of other senators  just a few minutes later, Chris. He was very disappointed and upset that  Judge Kavanaugh wouldn`t shake his hand, wouldn`t speak to him for even a  moment.

He just wanted to convey the heartbreak, the loss of a father whose  daughter had been murdered in the Parkland shootings, and wanted to  emphasize to Judge Kavanaugh the ways in which Americans all over the  country are watching this hearing, this confirmation process, eager to know  what his views are on important issues, including gun control, the Second  Amendment, and whether or not he should give up all hope of responsible gun  legislation should Judge Kavanaugh become Justice Kavanaugh.

MATTHEWS: Is -- do you think Kavanaugh is one of those people that would  have believed -- gone along with the Heller decision, who believed  completely in the right to bear arms at any point, it has nothing to do  with having a militia back in the colonial times or the federal period  times, it`s just some absolute right?

Do you think he`s one of those?

COONS: Yes, I do.

MATTHEWS: What do you think of that in terms of a nominee?

COONS: Well…

MATTHEWS: Should somebody be on the court who believes in the absolute  right to a gun?

COONS: I mean, my concern, Chris, across a lot of different topics that  Judge Kavanaugh has written about, spoken about where he`s issued decisions  on the D.C. Circuit is that he is significantly outside the mainstream of  American judicial thinking.

He`s got views on a whole bunch of issues. As you mentioned a few moments  ago, the one that concerns me most is his views on presidential power. We  may never see President Trump interviewed by special counsel Mueller if  Judge Kavanaugh`s views end up dominating a future Supreme Court, because  he has both written and spoken to the point that he doesn`t think a president should be subject to a subpoena for evidence or for testimony.

MATTHEWS: Do you think he`s another Robert Bork?

COONS: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Explain.

COONS: If by that, you mean a very intelligent, very well grounded in his  view of the law, but holding a view of the law that is significantly  outside the mainstream of current American thinking.

I think a new majority on the court, with Judge Kavanaugh added to it,  would be significantly more conservative than the majority of the American  people.

MATTHEWS: What I`m getting at is, Bork was the one who went along with the  Saturday Night Massacre.

COONS: Right.

MATTHEWS: He thought the president had a right to fire anybody he wanted  to fire right down the line, to get what he wanted to protect him from  prosecution.

COONS: And we see in Judge Kavanaugh`s decisions and speeches as recently  as this year a view of the president`s power. It`s called the unitary  executive theory, to give it a fancy name, but it`s rooted in a dissent by  Scalia that`s now, I think, more than 20 years old.

And just this year, Judge Kavanaugh, differing with the Supreme Court  majority, differing with the majority in his own circuit court, keeps  citing this Scalia dissent as the way the law should go.

In a recent speech, he said, of all the decisions, all the decisions that  he thinks deserve to be overturned, it`s that decision where a majority of  the Supreme Court said it was constitutional for there to be an independent  counsel investigating the president.

MATTHEWS: Last point.

That`s to say that President Trump, as president, is the country`s chief  law enforcement official.

COONS: That`s right.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: You say it so quietly.

COONS: That`s right.

MATTHEWS: But to most Americans hearing that today think, you mean he`s in  charge of his own prosecution and justice in terms of himself?

COONS: That`s right.

MATTHEWS: That he is, the president.

COONS: That makes no sense. That makes absolutely no sense, in my view.

I think that`s exactly why this is so concerning to me, just days after  President Trump has once again launched a Twitter attack on the attorney  general, on the special counsel, and now, alarmingly, is demanding that his  own political allies not be prosecuted by the independent professional  career prosecutors of the Department of Justice.

We have got a president, I am afraid, who is looking for a justice who will  give him a pass.

MATTHEWS: Sounds like the Il Duce theory.

Thank you so much, Chris Coons. Thank you, Congressman -- United States  senator from the state of Delaware.

COONS: Thank you, Chris.

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