CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Interview With Sen. Richard Blumenthal

Interview

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SCIUTTO: Shimon Prokupecz, Sara Murray, thanks very much. Joining me now is Senator Richard Blumenthal, he's a Democrat who sits on the Judiciary and the Armed Services Committee. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us today.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, D-CT.: Thank you Jim.

SCIUTTO: Is this an abusive power by the president?

BLUMENTHAL: It is not only an abusive power, it is illegal.

[18:10:00] It's abhorrent to our values and our national interest because we need critics like John Brennan to speak truth to power based on their vast experience. Here's someone who has served both Republican and Democratic presidents for decades. But also to use this kind of punishment, to chill speak is a violation of the first amendment. It's the reason we have the first amendment.

This kind of criticism is core protected speech. When the founders of our great nation decided on the first amendment, it was because the king of England would retaliate against critics by punishing them. And so it is a clear violation, in my view, of the first amendment.

SCIUTTO: Why is it illegal for the president to do this? My understanding from speaking to intelligence officials is he does have authority to revoke anyone's security clearance.

BLUMENTHAL: He has the authority to do a lot of things, but not in a way that violates the law. And here what we see is -- from Sarah Huckabee Sanders' own mouth -- that the reason for it is supposedly baseless accusations against the president --

SCIUTTO: And that's against the law. How? What law would it be against?

BLUMENTHAL: It would be against the first amendment because accusations -- in this case they're far from baseless, but even if they were baseless, it is that kind of public discourse that is protected. And to punish or retaliate against somebody -- and this is clearly punishment, using this clearance as a cudgel to try to silence and suppress speech.

SCIUTTO: To jettison this kind of experience, in effect, from the intelligence community -- and the I.C. (ph) often draws on the experience of former officials. Is that a risk to U.S. national security?

BLUMENTHAL: It's certainly a risk to national security going beyond John Brennan. And this issue is way bigger than John Brennan or even the 10 to 15 people who may be threatened. It goes to all of our contractors who may be inclined to criticize certain policies, it goes to others outside the government, what kind of enemies list is the president going to create, are we back to the time of Nixon? Where does it end?

Because the president has such vast powers to retaliate directly or indirectly against anybody that criticizes him that it sets a very dangerous precedent.

SCIUTTO: What can the Senate do to check the president? If this is an abuse of power by the president and the Senate, Congress, co-equal branch with the president, the executive, what can and will the Senate do to check his power?

BLUMENTHAL: At the very least I think we ought to have hearings. I think that there is a very solid and sound justification for hearings right away, either before the Armed Services Committee or Intelligence Committee. But clearly this abuse of power, stifling and suppressing dissent in effort, probably, to distract or silence his critics -- he sees the Manafort trial reaching conclusion, probably not a good one for him, he sees his attorney bullying and blustering again, and he sees that the special counsel investigation is literally knocking at the White House door.

And I think that the Intelligence Committee or Armed Services Committee ought to have hearings and my Republican colleagues should speak up and stand up.

SCIUTTO: This is a president, as we know, skilled in the art of misdirection. Do you see this as a transparent attempt by the president to distract from? He's had a bad week on some fronts as his former campaign chairman might very well be found guilty of serious crimes. You have a former aide accusing him of using racial slurs in private conversations. Was this an effort to distract?

BLUMENTHAL: Whether it is an effort to distract or to discredit his critics, as he has demonstrated a clear want to do, it is illegal. And it's illegal because it's retaliation for protected speech -- criticism of him well-warranted. But even if it were not so well- warranted, it would still be improper and illegal. And abhorrent to our American values of treasuring the marketplace of ideas and free discourse.

SCIUTTO: You're accusing the president of breaking the law, of committing a crime by doing this.

BLUMENTHAL: Well, breaking the law is not necessarily committing a crime. Violating the first amendment can be, if done with criminal motive, a violation of law. But it certainly an abuse of his power under the first amendment that breaks the spirit and probably the letter of the first amendment. And the kind of discrediting of critics is also part of a pattern. We're seeing it from his sycophants and surrogates in the Congress directed at the special counsel, we're seeing it from Giuliani, directed again at the special counsel, threatening to come down on him like a ton of bricks, an effort to silence and gag and suppress.

SCIUTTO: We see a familiar pattern here where something like this happens and you will hear from Democratic lawmakers like yourself and virtual silence from the other side of the aisle.

[18:15:00]

BLUMENTHAL: -- threatening to come down on him like a ton of bricks, an effort to silence and gag and suppress.

SCIUTTO: We see a familiar pattern here where something like this happens and you will hear from Democratic lawmakers like yourself and virtual silence from the other side of the aisle. Today, did you get any quiet calls from your GOP colleagues? Did you approach any in the hallways who said to you yes, this goes too far or are they scared to challenge this president in public?

BLUMENTHAL: What they've demonstrated in the past is a clear apprehension if not downright fear of retaliation from the president. Political retaliation, which also is part of the pattern. I'm hoping that this kind of abuse of the presidential power will trigger a bipartisan reaction. We're just coming back now from a 10 -- or two week break -- 10 day, two week break.

I hope that at some point they will stand up and speak out because John Brennan is a patriot, someone who has literally sat at the president's elbow as he decided to go after Osama Bin Laden. He has a record of service that is pretty difficult to exceed. And I think we will all be lesser -- our nation will be lesser if we are using security clearance powers to suppress and stifle this kind of speech.

SCIUTTO: Isn't this the (ph) president putting his own petty insecurity or thin skin above the security of the country?

BLUMENTHAL: It's petty and political reprisal. And it certainly is against our national interest.

SCIUTTO: Senator Blumenthal, thanks very much for taking the time.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

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