CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Representative Denny Heck

Interview

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HARLOW: OK, Caroline, appreciate the legal expertise this morning. Thank you very much.

Now back to Michael Cohen. Take a look at this. This 2017 tweet that he wrote about that meeting at Trump Tower. It's notable that Cohen tweeted this just after -- minutes after Don Jr. went on FOX News and said his father knew nothing about the Trump Tower meeting, and after he testified before Congress.

Let me read it. "So proud of Donald J. Trump Jr. for being open, honest and transparent to the American people. This nonsense needs to stop." That was then. We now know of course that Cohen thinks anything but this and he thinks that the president needs to be forthright and he says that the president knew about this Trump Tower meeting with the Russians.

With me now is Democratic Congressman Denny Heck of Washington. He sits on the Intelligence Committee and has questioned Michael Cohen under oath.

Thank you for being here.

REP. DENNY HECK (D), WASHINGTON: You're welcome.

HARLOW: That testimony was in October of last year. I know that you cannot say what he testified to, what he answered. But can you confirm for me that you or a fellow -- one of your members of Congress on the Intel Committee asked Michael Cohen, did the president know about the Trump Tower meeting with Russians before it happened.

HECK: So our pledge of confidentiality would extend to that question, too, Poppy, unfortunately. However anybody, just based on common sense, can deduce for themselves what it would make sense to ask of a witness before --

HARLOW: So that would be a logical question for you or one of your fellow members of Congress to ask.

HECK: Yes.

HARLOW: OK. You recently said, quote, "We've moved to collusion to conspiracy." Conspiracy is a federal crime. I mean, conspiracy by whom and for what?

HECK: So collusion is not a federal crime.

HARLOW: Right.

HECK: In fact, while there is a dictionary definition of it, it's not a crime whatsoever. I alleged that this is now fertile ground for exploring the possibility of conspiracy because of Michael Cohen's allegation that the president knew beforehand about the meeting on June 16th as I recall in Trump Tower, that included the president's campaign manager, his son-in-law and his son. Meeting with the Russians.

HARLOW: You said on MSNBC in the past few days that you don't see a reason for Michael Cohen to lie. That struck me because Michael Cohen is under federal criminal investigation. Should he be charged, he would have cause to lie, no?

HECK: Well, not if you believe that if he continued to lie that the president might pardon him as has been rumored over and over again. So he had to make that political calculus for himself. The fact of the matter is that neither Michael Cohen nor President Trump frankly are very reliable sources and Director Mueller is going to have to rely upon a body of evidence. This just being one element of it.

HARLOW: Let's talk about the party going forward. You know, when you look at what Democrats should run on in the midterms and in 2020, there is increasing evidence that Americans' faith in Robert Mueller has declined. That's gone in CNN polling from 48 percent back in March, down to 41 percent most recently.

Should this be a warning sign to your fellow Democrats saying don't run on this, don't make this issue number one if you're trying to win your race?

HECK: Poppy, I don't know of a single Democrat anywhere in America who is running on the basis of the Russia investigation. Here's what I hear them running on, lowering prescription drug prices, making sure that people with preexisting conditions are protected so they can have health insurance, trying to build an economy that not just grows but grows fairly by rebuilding --

HARLOW: Respectfully, Congressman, you and others talk and tweet a lot about the Russia probe and a lot about Trump and Cohen --

HECK: I -- Poppy, I talk a lot about Russia investigation when you invite me on your program and ask me about it.

HARLOW: You don't tweet about it?

HECK: Not much.

HARLOW: Do you think your other members of Congress should tweet about it and write about it less?

HECK: I think that Angie Craig in Minnesota and Lisa Brown in Washington and Antonio Delgado in New York and Abby Finkenauer in Iowa aren't talking about the Russia investigation at all.

HARLOW: Let's talk about some of the issues and just how far left you think the party should go. It was fascinating listening to Mitch Landrieu, former mayor of New Orleans, yesterday on with Jake Tapper.

[09:10:05] You're 99 days out from the midterms and he was asked sort of, you know, how far left should the party go. Let's listen.

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HARLOW: Is he right? Do you think Democrats should heed that warning from this self-proclaimed radical centrist?

HECK: I think the Democratic Party has always been strongest when it is agreed that it is a big tent party. We're strongest when we're inclusive and we have all elements, including those from the left, including those who are centrists but the common denominator is that we want to solve problems.

HARLOW: And there are a number of them to solve for the American people right now regardless of party. Do you think your party is doing that? And I ask that because of the difference that we see from these two women.

Let's pull them up on the screen. You've got Nancy Pelosi, who's been there for a long time, is an incredibly effective fundraiser, I think we have it. And you have Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who just won in New York's 14th with this victory that even she was stunned by, but she's someone who says abolish ICE, you know, tuition-free public college for everyone. Medicare for all. So which one of them embodies the big tent of your party right now?

HECK: All of them. That's the point of being a big tent party.

HARLOW: You can't -- but can -- frankly, can you have it all? I mean, you really -- you're either abolish ICE or you're not. You're either, you know --

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HECK: Or --

HARLOW: -- free college or you're not. You're either Medicare for all or you think that's too expensive and won't work, right?

HECK: Or at the end of a conversation about the current practices and policies of ICE, you reform ICE. You change the guy who's in charge of ICE to begin with but you also have them take a different approach, and you don't throw out their border enforcement relating to sex trafficking and drug interdiction. But you make sure they perform up to the spirit of what they originally intended. And what they originality intended to do was not separate families, not rip babies out of the arms of their mothers.

HARLOW: So you're not in the camp of abolish ICE.

HECK: I am not.

HARLOW: Is that correct? You say reform ICE.

HECK: That's correct.

HARLOW: Is there any 2020 contender that you think is too liberal right now, too left for the field right now that would cost Democrats the election?

HECK: Poppy, the starting gun for the 2020 presidential election goes off at 8:01 p.m. on November 6th, 99 days from now. Ask me that after --

HARLOW: All right. Well, let me ask about the midterms then. For Congress, is there any candidate that is too left, too liberal for the party? Do you think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who we had on here the morning after her victory, is too left for party as a whole?

HECK: So I happen to have had the honor to chair the candidate recruitment committee for the last four years of House Democrats, and I can tell you that the candidates that are running throughout the country reflect the interest and the desires and the aspirations of their districts. That's why I'm optimistic about the outcome of November 6th.

HARLOW: But you think she's more representative of New York 14th, of the district than of the country?

HECK: As determined by the primary election outcome, yes.

HARLOW: Thank you for being here.

HECK: You're welcome.

HARLOW: We'll have you back and ask you that question. We appreciate it. Thanks for the time.

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