MSNBC Hardball - Transcript
MSNBC Hardball - Transcript
Thursday, September 29, 2005
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MATTHEWS: ... David Gregory for NBC.
I'm joined right now by Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who voted in favor or Roberts today-he's also a member of the Judiciary Committee-and by Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer of California, who voted against Roberts.
Senator Grassley, do you advise, if the president were listening to you right now, for him to go a bit to the right or to stay right on the mark he was with Roberts?
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), IOWA: Well, I think the answer to your question is, stay on the mark with Roberts, but I think that that's also to the right, in the sense that at least it's in the same vein as Rehnquist being right.
MATTHEWS: So, you believe that-the Judge Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts, is as conservative as the late Chief Justice Rehnquist?
GRASSLEY: Oh, I don't know. But I know that he handled himself very well and he-and when somebody tells me that he's going to take no personal agenda to the bench and that he's going to see everything within the four corners of the law and the four corners of the facts of the case and make his judgment just on those things and consulting with other people on the bench, that's the sort of justice I think we ought to have, whether it's exactly like Rehnquist or not.
MATTHEWS: Let me go to Senator Barbara Boxer of California.
Senator Boxer, thanks for coming on the program.
You know, I looked at all the potential candidates for president. Who knows who is going to announce when it comes down to it. But you have got four of the five of the Democratic presidential hopefuls for 2008 voted against Roberts. Biden, Senator Clinton of New York, Senator Kerry of Massachusetts, and Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana all voted against him, while Senator Feingold voted for him. Is this a litmus-test issue for the Democratic presidential nomination? You have to be against a guy who's pro-life?
SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: Oh, no.
Let me tell you what is a test for us, and I think a very important test. And that is, that the Democrats are willing to fight for the people, fight for their rights, their right to privacy, their right to be treated equally, their right to be protected from polluted air and Superfund sites that harm their kids. That's what we're interested in.
It's not about how you try to phrase it, you know, liberal, left, right. It's about...
MATTHEWS: No, pro-choice or pro-life on abortion rights is how I phrased it.
BOXER: ... rights and freedoms.
Well, here's what I believe. You and I don't agree on this issue, but the bottom line of it is, whether you trust individuals and families to make decisions or whether you want state legislatures, you know, getting into your private life. And the vast majority of the American people trust our families. And most Democrats do, although some take the other side.
MATTHEWS: Well, the reason I asked it is, do you believe that someone who's pro-life, in other words, opposed to abortion rights, could be the nominee of the Democratic Party?
BOXER: Well, wait a minute. I thought we were talking about Roberts.
Now we are talking about who could be the nominee.
MATTHEWS: No, I'm just asking about the voting pattern today. What's interesting...
BOXER: Oh, I don't think-I don't think the people would-I think it's possible, but I think that the voters in the Democratic Party and, frankly, voters nationwide are pro-choice.
They don't want to see Roe overturned. Roe was a very modest decision that gives the woman the right to choose in the very early stages of the pregnancy. And, thereafter, it balances the various rights and gives the states the right to interfere in that decision. But Roe is something that's broadly supported.
And so I do think that a Democratic candidates will more than likely be supportive of Roe.
MATTHEWS: Let me go to Senator Grassley.
Let me ask you about this nomination; 22 Democrats voted against it. Is that what you're going to face automatically against any nominee? It won't get any smaller than that?
GRASSLEY: Well, not-not just because of that.
I think that there's a difference between Republicans and Democrats on this point. Remember that all but three Republicans voted for Ginsburg, even though, politically, she was involved in so many things before she became a judge. We just could not agree with her. But she was totally qualified.
But we had a lot of fringe groups on the right of us who urged us to vote against her, because maybe one of them would have been that she was pro-choice, let's say. We don't have the loyalty to our fringe groups that I think Democrats have to their fringe groups, the ACLU and the consumers union and the environmentalists, etcetera, etcetera.
MATTHEWS: Well, why was your vote unanimous today, then?
GRASSLEY: Well, because of the loyalty of the Democrats to their fringe groups, as opposed to Republicans, vis-a-vis Ginsburg, not having that same loyalty to Republican fringe groups.
MATTHEWS: But if most people watching this or reading about it in the papers tomorrow may look and see, well, the Democratic Party was split 22-22. And the Republican Party was unanimous, slam-bang, slam-dunk, 55 votes to zero. They would say one party was regimented and the other party was more independent-minded.
GRASSLEY: No, not if you compare Republicans, how we all voted for Ginsburg, and we were doing it based upon her qualifications to be a very good judge, even though we disagreed with her philosophy.
And we found Judge Roberts to be fully qualified and we voted for him based upon qualification, as opposed to his personal philosophy, to which we didn't really find much about, to be honest with you.
MATTHEWS: Senator Boxer, you voted against the nomination today. But many Democrats who are usually very concerned about rights and the issues you are concerned about voted for him today.
But they seemed to leave a kind of a message, which was, be careful the next time, Mr. President.
How do you read those votes, those 22, some of them very liberal members, who are concerned about the rights issues you have raised...
BOXER: Yes.
MATTHEWS: ... who did vote for him, Senator Leahy, for example, ranking member?
BOXER: Absolutely.
And I do agree that the Democrats, if you look at us in this particular vote, you see that we went with our conscience. We went with the bar that we set. Now, I set a certain bar, and others set a different bar. My bar was, I have to look into the eyes of my constituents and tell them that I am positive that their rights and freedoms and liberties will be protected.
I couldn't do it, because as Senator Grassley said, we didn't know much about this nominee. Judge Ginsburg was really an open book. I mean, it's true that she didn't answer every question, but her writings were prolific. We knew a lot more about her.
My colleagues you asked on the other side had a little bit of a different bar. Once this became the replacement for Rehnquist, it was kind of a swap. Probably, Roberts is going to be like Rehnquist. But this next seat is Sandra Day O'Connor. So, rather than have the president put up someone like Roberts, I want him-I hope he does this-if we want to get America together on the same page, he should make a nomination of someone just like Sandra Day O'Connor, someone very mainstream.
MATTHEWS: Do you expect that will happen?
GRASSLEY: I would suggest...
BOXER: I hope so.
And, I will tell you, Senator Specter suggested to President Bush that he ask Justice O'Connor to stay on the bench through this term, and that she would be willing to do so.
MATTHEWS: Right.
BOXER: If we really want to bring ourselves together, wow, this would be so good for our country right now, as we battle on so many other fronts.
MATTHEWS: Do you think that will happen?
BOXER: I wish it would. I don't think so. But I wish it would.
MATTHEWS: I wonder. I don't think the president is too happy with Sandra Day O'Connor's voting record.
Anyway, thank you very much, Senators.
BOXER: Well...
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: Senator Charles Grassley and Senator Barbara Boxer.
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