MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Mark Warner

Interview

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MELBER: The vets get it. You will have to educate me more.Lieutenant colonel Ralph Peters, thank you as always.

I turn now to Senator Mark Warner, vice chairman of the senate intelligence  committee making time for us in a very evening.

Donald Trump talking about this in a way that is obviously blatantly  misleading. What do you think is actually significant here tonight? And  same question to you on your concerns about the safety of our grid.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-WA), VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, Ari,  let me take them in reverse order. I have been saying for some time, you  know, America just passed a budget, the largest defense budget ever, $713  billion. Russia has a defense budget of about $67 billion. We are  spending 10x what they are spending. And I worry at times, and this is not  a partisan stab at actually Trump or any, but that we are -- we may be  buying the world`s best 20th century military in terms of tanks and guns  and trucks when 21st century conflict may be more in the realm of cyber and  misinformation and disinformation. And we see Russia actively using these  tools.

Matter of fact, we shouldn`t be surprised the equivalent of the chairman of  the Russian joint chiefs of staff back in 2011 said that Russia couldn`t  compete with the west with traditional armaments, but within cyber, with  misinformation and disinformation, they could compete. And frankly whether  it is threatening the grid, whether it is manipulating our elections or  manipulating social media, and candidly we are seeing the same tactics come  from China in terms of theft of intellectual property and luring in some of  our top tech companies in ways that are frankly unfair and biased towards  China, I do think we need a 21st century security doctrine that represents  where a lot of these conflicts may take place. And I don`t think -- I  think we are seeing the American intelligence community and others move in  that direction. But what makes it so much more challenging right now is  when you have got a President, as your previous commentator indicated, that  just doesn`t acknowledge the threat, doesn`t acknowledge the vulnerability  and tends to talk in hyperbole, in ways that frankly should concern all of  us.

I mean, what I think many of us are appealing to our Republican colleagues  don`t just tweet about it, don`t just privately acknowledge how off the  rails this President is with his comments and some of his policies, but  it`s really time for all of us, I think history is going to judge all of us  over these coming weeks how we react.

MELBER: You say that, you mention your colleagues, John Kennedy, a  Republican, used stark language today about some of the people targeted by  this big, and perhaps melodramatic threat from the White House to take  security clearances. And that issue does have others asking about whether  we are facing a kind of enemies list. Take a listen.

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WARNER: Well, Ari, I would more take Senator Corker`s comments. First of  all, this White House laid out this so-called enemies list to people that  they were threatening, a couple of which you`ve already had their security  clearances revoked when they were either fired or when they were quit, in  the case of Comey and McCabe. But the idea that long-term intelligence  professionals, who have served both Presidents of both parties, and in the  case of General Hayden was actually a Republican appointee, the fact that  they are expressing their first amendment rights and their now being  threatened, that is something that would be the actions that would come out  of a Venezuela, or would be definitely the kind of actions that President  Putin would take against any kind of internal threat. That does not  represent who we stand for as a country.
And frankly, the idea that you`re going to threaten somebody based upon  them exercising their first amendment rights is pretty astounding. And  this is where, again, and I think your previous commentator was right, you  know, the President rallies his base with these slogans and broad-based  (INAUDIBLE) attacks.
But the facts remain that the majority and I believe overwhelming majority  of Americans believe the President got snookered in Helsinki, then he  basically was played, played as a fool, I believe. It was an embarrassment  not only to our country but to our allies. And more Americans need to step  up. And frankly, more of my colleagues need to step up, not just with an  accessional tweetish but some of the legislation we are talking about in  terms of restraining the President`s ability, if the Russians, when the  Russians intervene again, for him not to have an ability to kind of lay off  the Russians, to have an immediate, additional sanctions or other tools  going into place. We need to send a message, even if the President won`t  stand up for America, that Congress as elected representatives will and in  terms of national security.

MELBER: Right.

And while I have you, last question, because we want to cover a lot of  different policy, this Supreme Court nominee picked by Donald Trump, with  quite a shocker, the unanimous, basically bipartisan appointee decision in  the Nixon case was that the rule of law apply to the President, and the  tapes come out. I mean, most people remember that whether he went to law  school or not.

Judge Kavanaugh saying maybe that was wrongly decided. Maybe Nixon was  wrongly decided and that was cause of attention at the time. Does that  view concern you? And do you think the White House may have picked him up  in part because he seems to be more solicitous towards the Nixon view than  holding a President accountable?

WARNER: Well, Ari, I mean, I think it was pretty remarkable at first that  the White House, this President outsourced his Supreme Court choices to the  federalist society. So he already had a prearranged group that was anti- choice, that was anti, you know, the protections of the Obamacare in terms  of folks with preexisting conditions. That had all the conservative  positions.

It is kind of curious, the more we see judge Kavanaugh`s record about this imperial view of the presidency. The fact that he is not willing to stand with traditional American jurisprudence about holding President Nixon 
accountable, then, Lord knows where he stands on this President. And unfortunately, that may be one of the reasons he was selected.

MELBER: All right. And I mean, that`s a big question people are asking,  was that something that put him somehow head and shoulders above.

Senator Mark Warner, thank you -- go ahead.

WARNER: We need to get all -- not only his opinions, but we ought to hold  this judge to the same standards that Judge Kagan was held to, that we  ought to be able to at least get a look at his writings and emails when he  was in the White House for President Bush.

MELBER: Very interesting. Senator Mark Warner, thank you.

WARNER: Thank you, Ari.

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