CNN "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees" - Transcript: Interview with Sen. Lindsey Graham

Interview

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COOPER: Well, the president also said that he will at the appropriate time invite Kim to the White House and visit Pyongyang as well.

Late today, North Korea's state news agency, no strangers to spin to put it mildly, but a twist on that replacing the word appropriate with convenient.

And I'm quoting here from North Korean state news. Kim Jong-un invited Trump to visit Pyongyang at a convenient time and Trump invited Kim Jong-un to visit the U.S. The two top leaders gladly accepted each other's invitation.

So, there's certainly a lot to digest in the hour ahead.

Joining us now is South Carolina's Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who got a call today from the president aboard Air Force One.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes.

COOPER: Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

COOPER: I don't know if you can, but what did you and the president discuss today and how did the president seem?

GRAHAM: Well, he wanted Air Force One to go faster. I think he's ready to get home. I said I'm on it.

No, he was in a good mood. He thought he had a good initial meeting. He's under no illusion that this is going to end quickly, but he believes that Kim Jong-un is going to take a take a deal to give up his nuclear weapons if we can convince him his regime is secure and his people are more prosperous. He believes that he is on the path to convincing Kim Jong-un that he's better off without nuclear weapons than with them. Time will tell.

COOPER: The president says he trusts Kim Jong-un. I know you haven't met him. Do you trust him? Do you think the U.S. should trust him?

GRAHAM: No. I mean, you know, this is the third time they promised to give up nuclear weapons. Prior to this, they just, you know, promised to give up and they build up.

What's different? I think Trump is different in the eyes of North Korea and China. I think his standing with North Korea is different than other presidents and we'll see what happens.

COOPER: Earlier today, I heard you say that any agreement that the president makes has to be signed off by Congress.

GRAHAM: Yes.

COOPER: I'm wondering, did you raise that issue with him today? Is that something that that he's an agreement with as well?

GRAHAM: We talked about that on the golf course before he went over, and we talked a lot about North Korea. What you need to understand, Anderson, that he rejects containment of North Korea.

There's a line of thought out there let's go ahead and give him his missile program and his nuclear weapons and tell him if he ever uses them against the United States, we'll wipe him off the map.

The president doesn't like that construct nor do I because I think he'll sell whatever he uses in the future. He's got plutonium bombs. He'll have hydrogen bombs. He'll have a bunch of missiles, not a few. So, the president has taken that approach off. He's in the denial mode. I'm going to deny him the capability to hit America with a nuclear-tipped missile. So, that's where President Trump is coming from.

But we did talk about a deal would have to come to Congress. He says, if I can't negotiate deal that I would be proud to send to Congress, then it's probably a bad deal.

COOPER: Are you concerned about the lack of details in this agreement? The president has long asserted North Korea, you know, has to agree to complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization. Neither the word verifiable or the word reversible are anywhere in this agreement.

In fact, in the past agreements as you've mentioned which were broken by the North Koreans, there has even been more specific language.

GRAHAM: Yes, not yet. I think what people need to understand is President Trump feels the need to try everything he can so we can abort a war that nobody wants but would maybe necessary to stop a threat to the homeland.

Here's what happened: President Trump has put himself in a box and Kim Jong-un has put also put himself in a box. You know, by meeting with the president and shaking his hand and having all this lavish praise heaped on, and can you imagine what President Trump would do if Kim Jong-un tries to play him like they've done for the last 30 years,

And can you imagine how the Trump presidency would be viewed if Trump capitulated and changed his mind and just gave them the nuclear weapons that they've been pursuing? I think -- I think we're in a spot now where the status quo is off the table.

COOPER: So, you've said that the only other option on the table for North Korea if they don't denuclearize is a military option.

GRAHAM: Yes.

COOPER: Is there a realistic military solution when it -- when it comes to North Korea? Obviously, the, you know, the death toll estimates in South Korea alone are tremendous.

GRAHAM: Well, that goes back to the central theme of are you OK with the containment? I'm not. I think they will proliferate or sell anything they build. They've done that in the past and it's too risky to allow them to have more nuclear weapons.

Here's what I think about a military option. It'd better be the last resort because it'd be devastating, but this regime would be utterly destroyed. You don't fire one shot you go in to take them out. Nobody wants that, but if you're not willing to do that, you'll never get a peaceful resolve.

And I think President Trump is willing to do that as a last resort and I hope we never get to that day. COOPER: I wonder what you think of the president sort of attitude toward international alliances. There's -- you know, we certainly saw all that happened in Canada, but also, you know, the information we have so far seems like the South Koreans were not informed in advance that the president was talking about stopping, at least temporarily, joint military exercises which he called war games and using the North Korean term provocative.

GRAHAM: Yes, you know, here's what I would say that suspending military exercises to send a signal to North Korea that we're going to give you the space to make a good decision about ending this conflict, it's OK with me. We'll continue to train, but joint exercises are designed to let North Korea know that if you get in a war with us in South Korea, you're going to lose.

I don't mind suspending these exercises to give some breathing space. I would very much oppose withdrawing our forces from South Korea as part of this deal or any other deal because it's a stabilizing influence on Asia.

Let's give President Trump a chance. He's unconventional. Let's see if he can do something better than people before him. I think he's got a chance to bring this to a conclusion because I do believe Kim Jong-un believes he will be better off without nuclear weapons if he can get the right deal.

COOPER: The notion of a cost-savings, which is something the president --

GRAHAM: Yes, that's ridiculously.

COOPER: -- has talked about obviously in the past, but he talked about that today. You're saying that's ridiculous, the idea stopping these exercises are cost savings.

GRAHAM: Here's what I'm so I support stopping the exercises to give North Korea some breathing space to see if we can get a deal. It's a gesture on our part that, OK, we're going to ratchet this thing down let's see if we can work at our differences. But the money we spend training with our allies is money well spent.

We spend about one or two billion dollars to keep our troops in South Korea. South Korea spends most of the money. It's not a burden onto the American taxpayer to have a forward deployed force in South Korea. It brings stability. It's a warning to China that you just can't take over the whole region.

So, I reject that analysis that it costs too much but I do accept the proposition, let's stand down and see if we can find a better way here.

COOPER: And just finally, do you think it's appropriate for the president to say that Kim is someone who quote loves his people given all the human rights abuses that we know he's committed against his people? GRAHAM: I don't think he loves his people. I think he loves himself. And I think the difference between Kim Jong-un and a radical Islamist is that they want to die for their cause, Kim Jong-un doesn't.

He wants live a good life. He wants security. Above all else, he wants to be secured, him and his inner circle.

If Donald Trump can provide the security he is seeking and a prosperous North Korea by giving up his nuclear weapons, he will do it.

[20:10:05] And here's this choice: you need to take that route or we're going to go to the military option to take your nuclear capability off the table. Our homeland will not be threatened by you any longer. We're going to end this and we hope to end it in a peaceful way.

But no, I'm not under any illusion about who this guy is. Remember Otto Warmbier, the president mentioned him.

COOPER: Yes.

GRAHAM: You know, he was murdered. He didn't die in jail. He was murdered by the North Koreans.

But the president can't rewrite history. I am willing to do almost anything within reason to bring this to a conclusion peacefully. I'm willing to give this guy security guarantees to make him feel like he can't give up his weapons, I'm willing to help him economically if he will give up his missile and nuclear program.

I don't want a war. You know, I don't mind lavishing praise on him if it gets us to where we want to go because we're going to end this one way or the other. It has to come to an end.

And peace is the best chance under Trump because I think North Korea believes that he will go to war if he has to, and if they ever doubt that, we'll never get an agreement.

COOPER: Yes. Senator Graham, I appreciate your perspective. Thanks so much for joining us.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

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