MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Russian Investigations

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

MATTHEWS: So well done. Thank you, David Corn. And your book is -- "Russian Roulette" is the name of your book about this  whole thing.

Let`s bring in Congressman Jim Himes, also of the House Intelligence  Committee.

Congressman Himes, what do you make of the fact that there is now a factual  argument? This isn`t about theory or interpretation. The guy was either  in Prague that time that -- people don`t go to Prague every weekend. He  was in Prague at a time he said he wasn`t there. He was there, according  to Mueller`s investigation.

What`s that tell you about the dossier and its credibility and what trouble  that Trump is in, now that his fixer has been nailed?

REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Yes, it`s a great question, Chris.

I will tell you, it raises two other questions, and then it makes a very  obvious point. Question number one, what was said in Prague with Michael  Cohen? Who did he meet with? What was said? What was the purpose of that  trip?

Number two, which is even more interesting, is, why did he need to lie  about it? Because, again, now, let`s -- let me be clear. Like everybody  else, I`m just reading the story, and I don`t know the background.

But if in fact there is proof that he was in Prague, why did he need to lie  to everybody, including committees of Congress, about the fact that he was  there?

And then, Chris, here`s the interesting thing. You know, I have sat for  six months now hearing the defenders of the president build their entire  case around the idea that the Steele dossier, you know, what Carter Page  calls the dodgy dossier, which the president negates as having any bearing  on reality, their whole point has been to attack this dossier.

Well, if it turns out that, in fact, this individual was in Prague, that`s  actually a verification of one of the key charges in the dossier. And I  would point out further that really it`s the one thing that have held up  and said, well, look, it`s not true because Michael Cohen said he wasn`t  there and he showed his passport.

So, the whole case built around the idea that the FISA warrant, the  investigation, by the way, which wasn`t true -- I was at the Department of  Justice today -- is built on the fact that this dossier is inaccurate.  That entire case falls apart.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about Rod Rosenstein. There`s still talk that he  might get bounced, fired this weekend.

If that`s the case, would you be for impeachment hearings?

HIMES: Well, Chris, I will tell you what. I have been thinking a lot about this in the last 48 hours. And I would  say. If Rosenstein is fired, with the intention -- and it all kind of  comes together right now, right, the pardon of Scooter Libby, a guy that  I`m pretty sure the president has never heard of until…

MATTHEWS: Yes. He`s a name. You`re right. He`s a name. He`s a neocon  favorite, though. He`s a neocon pinup boy.

(CROSSTALK)

HIMES: Right.

MATTHEWS: Go ahead.

HIMES: But we know how Trump used to feel about the Iraq War, and nobody  did much more than Scooter Libby did to promote that Iraq War.

MATTHEWS: That`s for sure.

HIMES: And now, all of a sudden, the guy gets pardoned? I mean, this is a message, right? But…

MATTHEWS: Well, didn`t you see that coming when he hired Bolton? My God, it`s the whole neocon crowd coming back, in total violation of the campaign that he ran on against stupid wars and these neocon wars like with Iraq. And then he brings -- they`re all coming back together like a conga line. It`s unbelievable.

HIMES: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Anyway, I`m with you, Congressman. It`s an awful political  betrayal of even the people who thought there was something to the Trump  campaign.

HIMES: So, Chris, what`s important here…

(CROSSTALK)

HIMES: What`s important here, look, if he fires Rosenstein with the  intention of ending this probe, that is, in my opinion -- and I`m not even  a lawyer, but, in my opinion, that`s very clear obstruction of justice.

But what is absolutely priority number one, two, and three if that happens  is reconstituting, through congressional action -- we`re going to having to  call Chuck Grassley and, you know, the Republicans who have been tut- tutting and saying that ending this investigation is political suicide, it  ends the president`s presidency.

This will be the moment when Congress needs to come together and say, hey,  without prejudice, we are reconstituting this investigation, because,  regardless, the American people need to know the truth. And the only way  we`re going to know the truth is if that investigation…

MATTHEWS: Are you saying it`s going to take for that wall to fall, for  Rosenstein to be fired, for these Republican leaders to actually get their  act together to protect the special counsel?

HIMES: Well, you know, the bill that would protect the special counsel is  moving through committee over on the Senate side.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

HIMES: But I would tell you this. As one member of Congress, I would tell  you, it is not in a veto-proof position right now.

And so, you know, this would be a moment of accounting for an awful lot of  legislators. Are you going to -- even though your primary voters at home  may not like you standing against the president, are you going to stand up  for the rule of law in the United States, or are you going to let this  president end an investigation?

MATTHEWS: Congressman, maybe it`s cruel to say, but I think the Republican  leadership is more like Chairman Nunes than not.

Thank you so much, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source