NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Syria and Trade

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:

Well, joining me now is the Republican Senator from South Dakota, Mike Rounds. Senator Rounds, welcome to the show.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I start, I know you wanted to respond to some of the trade comments. But I want to ask you about Syria. The State Department indicates that, yes, there appears to have been a chemical weapons attack by the Assad folks. And they say the blame is on the Russians for essentially acquiescing to this. Already the Russian government, using the phrase "fake news," the Russian Foreign Ministry is saying, "This is fake news," this idea that there even was a chemical weapons attack. That's why I brought up that phrase just now, because our adversaries are using the exact phrase. You supported an air strike the last time the president-- the last time Syria did this. Would you support another one? And do you think the president needs to respond in the same way he did a year ago?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

He, he was a, a, a new sheriff in town. He needed to set the agenda, making it very clear that, if we draw a red line in the sand, that, that we're going to honor that red line. So what you've got right now today is he's in office for more than a year. And he's got to send a message once again that what he said he meant. I think we wait until the Secretary of Defense puts together his proposals, he lays them in front of the president. The president needs to have the good advice. He needs to know what his options are. And then I think he should act decisively. And I think he will hold not just Syria, but I think he will make it very clear that he believes that Russia is also responsible.

CHUCK TODD:

What are the consequences of not acting with the same toughness that he did a year ago?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Yeah, we--

CHUCK TODD:

If he lets this go, what message does that send to Putin and to Assad?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

That's, that's exactly the problem that we've got right now is is we have to be consistent. And I don't know care whether you're talking about trade policy or if you're talking about our policy in the, in the, in the Middle East. You have to be consistent. So, he started out with the right policy. He was telling people, "Look, you're, you're going to be held accountable for what you do." That's appropriate. It was appropriate a year ago. It would be appropriate today. But let's get all of our facts together. Let's be prepared. Let's do our strategic planning. Let's allow the military to be in a position to where we can be effective in the way that we respond. Don't get pushed into doing it based on Putin's terms--

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

--terms, but on our terms. So, let's get everything put together first, and then act decisively.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me move to the trade issue. There's no doubt about it that the, the tariffs will be economically very tough on South Dakota agriculture. That I'm aware of. And I understand that that's the position you're coming from here. Were you reassured at all from what you heard from Peter Navarro just now?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

To a certain extent. Because look, look Sonny Perdue, former Governor Perdue, I've known him for, for 15 years now. He's going to do everything he can. He understands how critical it is to have a good foreign policy, but also, one that allows for us to continue to expand our exports, particularly in ag. It's one of the bright spots when it comes to, to, to the export challenges that we've got in this country. He has limited tools available to him to respond in, in a case like this. We're talking about a lot of money that goes down, just on the speculation of having a tariff put in place. Let me give you an example. In South Dakota, small state, it's our second largest crop. We produce enough soybeans to where, if, if you just drop the price by ten cents based on the speculation of having China put a tariff on, a ten cent reduction per bushel is about two hundred-- is about $24 million a year for a ten cent reduction in the price of soybeans. That's happening right now.

CHUCK TODD:

What would you, look, there's a lot of people that want to hold China accountable for the intellectual property issue. There's, there's no doubt about it. This has been a constant -- and the technology theft and all of these issues. How would you propose going about it? What are the tools that could be used if negotiation hasn't worked?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Look, yeah, and, and, and I think you hit it on the head. Because in this particular case, we've got options available to us. Number one, let's quit fighting with Mexico and Canada. They are our allies. We've actually got a, a, a pretty good relationship right now with NAFTA. So rather than going after NAFTA and starting over there, TPP, which is the Trans Pacific Partnership, where we had 11 other countries in the Pacific Rim area or right around China, who'd rather do business with us than with China. We stopped that negotiation a year ago. We should have been--

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think that was the biggest mistake, and that we wouldn't be in the same place we are today because of that?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

I recognize that the president thinks we can get a better deal if we do them individually. But it's been a year. We don't have any of them done. So number one, let's get those done. Because if we've got 500 million people that would like to trade with us, these are folks that are around China, you think China doesn't fear the possibility of having the United States having relations with all of those countries right around the area that they're trying to expand, once again, into? You know, their, their one, one, one road, or one, one, one road, one belt approach, which is trying to take care of and control all of the sea lanes, the shipping lanes in the, in the South Pacific, they're putting in military bases down there to do that. If we step in right now and have relationships, trade relationships and military relationships, with those other countries, that stops China in their efforts.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to ask you, though, about a similar sort of framing of a question I asked you about Syria. What are the consequences if the president threatens tariffs and then doesn't?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, does the world just see the president as a bluffer?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Well, hopefully it doesn't come to that. And, and most certainly, we don't want to see the president put in a position to where he has to execute a, a, a tariff if he doesn't absolutely have to. He is correct in the policy in that China clearly has been cheating when it comes to, to how they're doing business with the rest of the world. We're not the only ones. I have no objections with the, with the president long term trying to fix the relationships with China and holding them accountable. Intellectual property in particular, they're, they're, they're stealing from us. So, but, but let's just be clear, strategically, number one, we need other trading partners to help pick up the slack. And second of all, and this is, to me, absolutely important, I think he needs to be able to explain to the American what his endgame is. Where does he want to go? What's his final goal?

CHUCK TODD:

And what's, what's-- what does, what does winning this tariff fight look like?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Right.

CHUCK TODD:

Final question. Scott Pruitt a lot in the news. I can put up some of the allegations that have come out against him as far as how he's conducted himself in office with a lavish security detail, first class flights, things like that. Do you think he should still be E.P.A. administrator?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

I do.

CHUCK TODD:

Why?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

I do, because he's following through with the, with the policies that the president said he wanted to implement. In terms of--

CHUCK TODD:

When does, when does ethics matter, though?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

It--

CHUCK TODD:

Because Tom Price did less and was fired.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Look, the reason why, the reason why all of the emphasis right now is on Mr. Pruitt is because he is executing these policies. And they're not real popular policies with a lot of people. But he is executing the policies that this president said he would put in place.

CHUCK TODD:

But does that justify this--

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

It's, it's part of a--

CHUCK TODD:

Does that justify this behavior?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Look, any time you start taking a look at all of the different activities, and I don't know how much of it is overblown and how much of it is accurate, to be honest. I'm not going to call it fake news. I'm going to say that, in some cases, we'll over-blow something. But in this particular case, Mr. Pruitt has been doing a good job as the secretary of the E.P.A.. He's moving forward exactly as this president said he would. And I'm going to give you a couple of examples.

CHUCK TODD:

I know, but what's the message that's sent that, "Well, you know, ethics matter only when I like the job that they're, they're doing."

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Which--

CHUCK TODD:

That they don't matter if they don't? I mean that's the problem.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Which--

CHUCK TODD:

What's the mixed message?

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Which one of the, of the challenges would you like to start-- would you like to say, "Oh, he has too big of a security detail?" Is that suddenly the reason why you fire someone?

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah, at what point, though, does that accumulate and you're wondering, "He's not--

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

How about one where--

CHUCK TODD:

--a steward of the taxpayer dollar?"

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Well, look. Let's take a look at how many dollars the E.P.A. can actually save. The big picture. You know, we'll nitpick little things. He has too many people on his security detail. It may add up to, to more than what the previous guy did. But what about the big picture of, of, of how he's taking care of the stewar-- of the taxpayers' dollars with the department, the E.P.A.? And what about the regulations that he said he's going to clean up on that he is? And what about the response directly back out to allow businesses to actually grow and expand? Remember, this president said, number one, we had to have tax policy. We've got it. We said we had to have regulatory reform. We've got it. Scott Pruitt is a big part of that. He's executing what the president wants him to execute.

CHUCK TODD:

Governor Rounds, I have to leave it there. Governor Rounds, you were a former governor. Senator Rounds--

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Always a compliment.

CHUCK TODD:

I, I was just going to say. I've never met a former governor who didn't prefer that title.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

That's right.

CHUCK TODD:

Thanks for coming in and sharing your views.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Thank you. Appreciate it.

CHUCK TODD:

And welcome back to, welcome back to DC.

SENATOR MIKE ROUNDS:

Thank you.

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