MSNBC "All in with Chris Hayes" - Transcript: VA Privatization

Interview

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HAYES: Joining me now, Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont who`s  a Member of the Veterans Affairs Committee, the former Chair of that  Committee who`s worked closely on these issues throughout the years. What  did you make of that?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, first of all, let me thank Dr.  Shulkin for his work and his efforts to strengthen the V.A. He wrote an  op-ed in the New York Times today and I think it said it all and he said it  to you. And that is, this is not a personality issue, this is not  conspiracy. What this is about in an effort on the part of the Trump  administration to continue their efforts in support of the Koch brothers  agenda who are now the most powerful political force in America to  privatize the V.A. You just heard Dr. Shulkin tell you that the V.A. has a  budget of about $200 billion. That`s a lot of money. And there are a lot  of people in the private sector now who are looking at the V.A. and they`re  saying hey, how can we make huge amounts of money off the V.A. by expanding  privatization. That`s what this issue is about. Now, nobody should be  surprised that this is taking place. You got the Koch brothers who are  determined, this is their agenda. It`s not a secret. They want to  privatize Social Security, they want to privatize Medicare, they want to  privatize Medicaid. They want to privatize the Postal Service. You have a  Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos who doesn`t believe in public education.  So nobody should be shocked that the V.A., the second largest agency in  government, would be subject to privatization. That is what the struggle  is all about.

HAYES: What do you say to people who say, look, the V.A. is broken, we  have this huge scandal in 2014, these long wait lists, it`s not functioning  and you got to give people access to private care so they have choice and  they can get seen immediately. What`s so wrong with that?

SANDERS: Well, first of all, what does bother me as you know, the former  Chair of the V.A., I talk to a lot of veterans. I was just in the medical  center, veterans medical center here in Vermont today. I talk to veterans  all of the time. And you know what they say? They say, of course, the  V.A. has problems, so does every hospital in America. So does our entire  health care system which is basically dysfunctional. But given all of  that, you talk to the average veteran, you talk to the American Legion, the  American Legion just published a book talking about their strong support of  the V.A. and their determination to prevent it from being privatized.  That`s what the VFW, the DAV, the Vietnam Vets believe. So does the V.A.  with 131 separate hospitals and many, many hundreds of community-based  outreach clinics have problems? Yes, it does but so does every other  medical system in America. And by the way, there was a poll done a couple  years ago and they asked the American people, Gallup did, they said what  are your favorite health care systems in America? In first place was  Medicare and the Veterans Administration. They were at the top of the  list. So our job and Dr. Shulkin referenced this, our job is to do what  the veterans want and that is to strengthen the V.A., to make sure they  have the doctors and the nurses and the staff that they need not to  dismember it not to privatize it.

HAYES: Do you believe that Dr. Jackson is qualified for this position?

SANDERS: Well, I know nothing about Dr. Jackson other than the little that I`ve read. He appears to be a very good family physician and he has done a good job not only for Trump but for the Obama administration. But you just heard Dr. Shulkin saying something that is eminently true. And that is this is an enormously -- this is the largest integrated health care system in America, 350,000 employees. In my view, you would need somebody with a great deal of administrative experience, somebody hopefully who knows something about the V.A. But what I fear very much and this has nothing to do with -- I know nothing about Dr. Jackson so this is not a criticism but I think he is going to be the front guy to try to move toward privatization. And what I am urging my colleagues on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee to do is to not support Dr. Jackson or anybody else who intends to privatize the V.A. That would be a terrible disservice to millions of veterans in this country who depend upon the V.A.

HAYES: Final question. Has -- did Shulkin do a good job? And we keep  talking about strengthening the V.A., we know that there are this problems.  Did -- have things improve? Does the trajectory going in the right  direction?

SANDERS: I think in general it is. Look, he was under a lot of pressure.  And at every meeting, there was always that debate between those who wanted  to privatize and he was clear. He`s consistent in what he told you this  evening. He wants to strengthen the V.A. but wants to give under certain  circumstances and the devil is in the details veterans the option to go to  private care. If you are living in a very rural state and you have to  travel two hours to get to a V.A., should you be able to go to a community  physician, of course you should. If you`re in an area where the V.A. is  not providing timely care and you have to wait too long, should you be able  to get private care, the answer is yes. But that does not mean to say you  privatize the V.A.

HAYES: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, thanks for being with me.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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