MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Trade
Interview
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MADDOW: Elizabeth, as known to most people, as Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. And that was President Obama in his interview with Chris Matthews yesterday, taking on Senator Warren specifically on the issue of trade. She is wrong, he said there, in case you missed it. Senator Warren has been a vocal opponent, alongside Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown and some other Senate Democrats, a vocal opponent of the trade deal that the White House is negotiating right now with 11 countries in the Asia Pacific region, also including Canada and Mexico. The president says this is the most progressive trade deal in history, but the progressives in his own party, perhaps most notably, Senator Warren, really do oppose this deal. And they oppose it publicly and loudly. And joining us exclusively tonight for "The Interview" is Senator Elizabeth Warren to talk about it. Senator Warren, thank you so much for being here tonight.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Thank you. It`s good to be here.
MADDOW: So, you have said, part of the problem here is that the public can`t read this deal. Therefore, Congress shouldn`t grease the wheels to it being OK`d, before the public can find out what`s in it. Have you been able to read the deal?
WARREN: Yes. So, senators can go and read it. People in the House of Representatives can go and read it. But we`re not allowed to talk about it. So, now, it`s the case that the president says that he wants the American people to judge this deal based on the facts, but to do that, he`s got to make the deal public. Otherwise, the American people can`t judge it on the facts. You won`t put the facts out there. The press should be able to see this. People should be able to dig into it. If it`s a great deal for families, like the president says, or a great deal for workers, then put it out there and let them see it before we have to grease the skids to get the deal done.
MADDOW: On the issue of who has information about what`s in the deal, the administration told us today that there will be a public comment period before the trade agreement is signed by the president, that the public will be able to see it online for a certain amount of time, before any decision is made. Does that assuage any of your fears about this?
WARREN: Look, they`re asking us to vote now on greasing the skids, so that we give up now any chance to be able to amend it, any chance to be able to block it, any chance to be able to slow it down. Give all that up, and then you`ll get to see the deal on the other side. I just don`t think that`s reasonable, and let me tell you partly why. We can talk about the facts that the American people can`t see, but there`s one fact that the American people can see. And that is, how the negotiation process worked. So, you know, these negotiations have been going on for a long time.
And there are 28 different working groups for it. Eighty-five percent of the people in those working groups are senior executives in various industries that are going to be affected, or, they are lobbyists, for those industries. They`re the ones who have helped shape the deals. They`re the ones who have helped determine what that deal is going to look like on the other side.
And my view is -- when the process is rigged, then the outcome is likely to be rigged, too.
MADDOW: So, you`re saying that the corporate interest that will be directly involved in this, and who most want the deal, even as most labor interests are saying they are not interested in this deal, you`re saying
those corporate interests do have all the access, not only to seeing what`s in it, but in fact to shaping what`s in it?
WARREN: They`ve been in there now for months and months and months -- during the negotiations, the back and forth, helping shape this deal.
And I just think it`s time to say no. What we want to do here is we want to say, put the deal out there, so the American people can see it and let`s have a debate on the facts.
And I`ll tell you this, I started a petition now, after I listened to the president, I said, you know, let`s hear from the American people. It`s at ElizabethWarren.com. It`s right there on the front page. For the American people to say, no, we want to see this deal before you grease the skids, not afterwards.
MADDOW: In terms of your dialogue with President Obama about this. Obviously, it`s got to turn your head a little bit when the president calls you out by name and says that he loves you, but you`re wrong. You`ve obviously had a constructive relationship with the president in the past, you have been an ally of his, and he of yours, on a lot of issues in the past.
Is it a surprise to you that you find yourself at such odds with him on this? And do you see any possible path where you two may end up agreeing or more on the same page about this? Are you inextricably at odds
on this?
WARREN: Yes, I`m always, always here to talk to the president and to try to be constructive in any way possible. But let me remind you about this greasing the skids part of it -- this is a deal that lasts, the greasing lasts at least until 2018. And most likely, because of the way It`s constructed, until 2021, which means it`s partly about the deal negotiated by this president.
But, look, I hope that we have great people that I love in the White House. I hope we have great people running the Senate and the House. I want to see Democrats in charge everywhere.
But do understand, once the skids are greased with this Trade Promotion Authority, it lasts into the next president and potentially even the president after that. They will have the same capacity to run these deals through and to run them through with very little input from anyone other than the industries that are involved, and with very little oversight from the public and virtually no ability to stop it from the Senate or the
House and that really has me worried.
MADDOW: It looks like the fast track authority may go ahead. Obviously, you guys have slowed it down. Your complaints have really I think changed the trajectory, by which it would have been discussed, without you being so vocal on it, you and Sherrod Brown and Bernie Sanders,
and the other leaders on this issue.
If you don`t win the vote and the fast track authority is approved, are there other ways that you think that you can get your point across on this?
WARREN: You know, I think part of this is making sure that people are heard from. You know, for me, this is basic democracy 101. I want people to be able to see the first deal that`s lined up. Before they say,
"Yes, it`s OK, let`s put Congress on a fast track to make that sort of thing work," I want them to be able to see it, and I want them to be able to debate it.
And I want to say, we`re not going to agree, right a blank check for whatever some subsequent president may negotiate on down the line in a second deal, a third deal, or whatever. For me, this is just kind of
fundamental principles about how democracy is supposed to work. American workers have really been slammed by past trade deals. They have not been good for us here in America. It`s not been good for American manufacturing.
If this is a better deal, then hang it out there in public and let us take a look at it. Let us have a public conversation, based on the facts.
MADDOW: Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you so much for your time tonight. It`s always great to see you. Thank you.
WARREN: Thank you.
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