CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Congressman Seth Moulton ISIS

Interview

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BLITZER: You don't want to be a truck driver driving with those oil tankers at this time. All right, Barbara, thanks very much.

[18:10:07]

Let's talk about all this with Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He's a member of the Armed Services Committee. He's also a Marine Corps veteran. He served four tours of duty in Iraq.

Congressman, thanks very much for coming in.

You suspect that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, could already have been moved out of Raqqa?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It sounds like that is a good possibility. And the fact that ISIS essentially has freedom of movement not just Syria, but Iraq as well, is a real problem for us in bringing their organization down.

BLITZER: Should the U.S. be taking out all of ISIS' oil capabilities right now, not just bombing the trucks, if you will, but going after the refineries, these storage depots? As you know, Donald Trump has been recommending this for a long time.

MOULTON: Well, I think this is an example of where it's very hard to have a specific military strategy without a broader political strategy, without a plan for what's going to take the place of ISIS after we defeat them militarily, because it's the political vacuum that's existed in Syria with the civil war and has existed in Iraq and allowed ISIS to sweep into Iraq that's the fundamental problem.

We can defeat ISIS militarily, but unless we have a political plan for the aftermath, we are going to find ourselves back in Iraq again five years after today's action, just like we're coming back now, five years after President Obama pulled the last troops out.

BLITZER: Are you saying that the president, the Obama administration does not have a political strategy in place?

MOULTON: I don't think we have a serious enough political strategy.

I think that we have really been leading with bombs and leading with troops. If you think about what happened when ISIS had this dramatic expansion from Syria into Western and then into Northern Iraq, they didn't just sweep in and defeat the Iraqi army.

The Iraqi army put its weapons down and went home because they had lost faith in their own government. And that tells us that fundamentally it's a political problem in Iraq today that has allowed the rise of ISIS.

But what was the president's response? He sent 500 military trainers to Baghdad. You don't fix Iraqi politics by training Iraqi troops. I think the military piece has got to be part of the solution. There are a lot of ISIS guys who frankly need to be killed and that's the only way to defeat them.

But unless we have an overarching political strategy to guide our military plans and to make sure we have a plan in place to fill the vacuum that will be left after we defeat ISIS, then this that's not a long-term solution.

This example with the oil infrastructure, maybe it makes sense, but let's come up with a political plan so we understand who is going to take the place, who is going to take over that oil infrastructure once we get ISIS out of there. Then we can have a better idea of whether it makes sense as a shorter-term military strategy.

BLITZER: Yes, a lot of people make the point, when the U.S. went into Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein, that was relatively easy. But there was no real strategy what to do afterwards. That became the big problem, why the U.S. was stuck there for so long.

Congressman, stand by. We have more to discuss.

We're about to go to the front lines, as close to Raqqa as you could possibly get -- much more with the congressman when we come back.

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[18:18:00]

BLITZER: We're back with Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee. He's also an Iraq War veteran.

Congressman, stand by, because we're following the breaking news.

A new worldwide travel alert has just been issued by the State Department warning all Americans around the world of an increased terror threat.

Let's go to our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh. He's in Northern Iraq right now.

And, Nick, you just returned. You were embedded with Kurdish fighters on the front lines of the ISIS battle. You got very close to the self-proclaimed ISIS capital in Syria of Raqqa. Tell us how that went.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is remarkable to see almost unnoticed how much progress those Kurdish forces, the YPG, have made.

They have basically isolated ISIS territory from the Turkish- Syrian border quite effectively and are pushing down south to within 20 miles, as you said, of Raqqa, where they have a substantial trench network, an outpost close by.

Now, there's a lot of open ground between them and the outskirts of Raqqa, but they have a lot of coalition air support. In fact, just 24 hours ago in the very place we were, the pictures you're seeing of now, there were a bid by ISIS to attack them. And in fact four coalition airstrikes hit the town of Ain al-Issa, but those Kurdish fighters, they are high in morale.

One of them said he wants to avenge upon ISIS for what happened in Paris. Another said they would very happily welcome French, Russian or even American troops there as well, feeling they have what they refer to as a duty for humanity to get rid of ISIS.

But their weapons are very light, one of the fighters there actually carrying one which used to belong to his friend who died eight months ago who also fought for the YPG. They don't necessarily have the numbers either. They seem to be being boosted by some Sunni Arab fighters, Syrians, too, known as the Syrian Democratic Forces. They're a vital part of the American strategy to try and make sure that any Kurdish attack against Raqqa has got some Sunni Syrian Arabs in the mix, too, because Raqqa is a Sunni Syrian Arab town.

[18:20:03]

But while they are optimistic about moving in a ground offensive, too, as I say, they don't necessarily seem to have the weapons in place just yet, although under their breath, off camera, they did talk about how there may have been some Americans in their mix, too, suggesting perhaps special forces that Barack Obama announced in the last month may already be in play there, Wolf.

BLITZER: He said about 50 of them would be deployed inside Syria in this battle for Raqqa as advisers.

All right, thanks very much, Nick Paton Walsh, on the ground for us doing important reporting

Congressman Moulton is back with us.

Congressman, the Kurds, these fighters and Nick was with them only about 20 miles outside of Raqqa. Could they actually liberate Raqqa, though, with as few troops as they have?

MOULTON: That remains to be seen.

If is truly pulling out of Raqqa, as it sounds like they might be, then maybe they have a good chance. But, if that happens, then what have we really achieved? And are they prepared to actually hold the territory and take over administratively where ISIS left off?

That's really the missing point here. I would ask, what is the mission of our 50 special forces that are going in there? Are they there just to defeat ISIS, or are they going to force a transition from Assad's leadership? Or are they going to overthrow Assad militarily or politically?

These are the kind of fundamental questions that we have to answer to give our troops the guidance that they need and to make sure that we have a real plan for defeating ISIS, not just in the short term, but in the long term as well.

BLITZER: And as they say, as General Colin Powell used to say, you also need not only a strategy, not only a plan. You need an exit strategy down the road as well.

And what I'm hearing from you, Congressman, correct me if I'm wrong, you're not hearing any of that.

MOULTON: No, I'm not. I'm not hearing nearly enough.

The fundamental thing that has led to the rise of ISIS, that led to the rise of al Qaeda before it are these political vacuums in the Middle East. It's a political vacuum that allowed ISIS to sweep into Iraq from Syria. It's a political vacuum that in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 that allowed the establishment of training camps that were used against us in the 9/11 attacks.

So we have got to have that piece of the plan in place. It doesn't mean there is not a role for the military. A lot of these ISIS thugs need to be killed. And so dropping bombs and at some point perhaps even sending in advisory troops is needed. But we have got to have a serious long-term strategy, a serious political plan if we're ever going to see this through.

And, by the way, we also have to talk about things like social media. ISIS is recruiting people around the globe, including right here in America, using the Internet, using social media. And I don't think we're meeting that threat either.

BLITZER: Yes, we certainly aren't.

Congressman, Germany's "Der Spiegel" reporting that a third Paris attacker may have entered France as a refugee. It's interesting. You brought your Iraqi translator back home from Iraq. Do you think the U.S. has a good enough vetting system right now in place to handle thousands potentially, let's say, of Syrian and Iraqi refugees?

MOULTON: Yes, I do.

And I received extensive briefs on that system this past week. And it's worth pointing out that the Republican bill to hit pause on Syrian refugee immigration really does nothing substantive to improve the process, to improve the screening.

We already have the most intensive screening process for any traveler coming to the United States reserved for these refugees. It's totally unlike what happens in Europe. It takes 18 to 24 months for an individual to be approved as a refugee to come from Syria to the United States. And that person cannot set foot in our country until fully approved. It includes extensive background checks, checks against numerous different databases, and interviews with counterterrorism and immigration officials. In Europe, that doesn't happen at all. They're just flowing across the border.

It's a very different situation. And I think if we focus on refugee immigration, not only are we betraying our values in saying that American values only apply with caveats to certain religions or certain nationalities. We're also really missing the threat.

BLITZER: Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts, Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

MOULTON: Thanks, Wolf.

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