FOX "Hannity"- Transcript: Cruz Interview
Interview
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HANNITY: Joining us with reaction, the man himself, 2016 Republican presidential candidate Texas senator Ted Cruz. Senator, I thought you had a huge night last night. Congratulations to you.
Let's go to -- the number one poll-tested line of the night was that line on immigration that you used. You're tired of it. You know, We're being told we're anti-immigrant. It's offensive. Explain more.
CRUZ: Well, Sean, thank you. It's great to be with you. You know, I have to say, I suspect an awful lot of Republicans were having the same reaction I was as we were listening to the debates, which is that we saw one Republican after another giving an ode to amnesty, one after the other saying how we needed to be compassionate and we needed to just forgive the 12 million who came here illegally and presumably put them all on a path to citizenship.
And I got to say my reaction as I was listening to that, I was just getting angrier and angrier. Look, there is nothing compassionate about a bunch of politicians saying, I'm so compassionate, I'm going to give away your job, because Hat's what they're saying. None of them are losing their jobs, but they're happy to tell working men and women across this country that your job can be taken away by people coming here illegally!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
HANNITY: Senator, let me ask you that point because you're right, the more people that cross the border, more competition -- we have 94.5 million Americans that are out of the labor force right now. And it also drives down wages. But is another point. Conventional wisdom, we hear this all the time, Senator, is that, Oh, if Republicans are too hard on illegal immigrants, it's going to cost them the Hispanic vote. What is your answer to that?
CRUZ: That it's utter nonsense. Number one, in 2012, when I was running for Senate in Texas, I won 40 percent of the Hispanic vote at the exact same time that Mitt Romney was getting clobbered with 27 percent of the Hispanic vote nationwide. And when I ran for Senate in Texas, I was unambiguously against amnesty. We can compete vigorously in the Hispanic community without abandoning our principles.
But number two, if we just agree with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on amnesty, Republicans will lose. Why? Because millions of working men and women, millions of Reagan Democrats will stay at home to say, To heck with all of them. They're all in the pocket of the big banks and wall Street and K Street and the lobbyists. They don't care about us.
The way we win, Sean, is we run a populist campaign fighting for working men and women who want to believe again in the promise of America, and we run it against the bipartisan corruption of Washington! And I'll say this. If Republicans nominate a candidate who has embraced amnesty, it means we give up that issue in 2016. It means both candidates, the Republicans and the Democrat, will be supporters of amnesty. That is a ticket to losing this general election!
HANNITY: It's fascinating what emerged last night. One of the things I liked the most about -- you have a few fans back there, Senator.
One of the things I liked -- we got -- last night, I thought the best debate inasmuch as we got a comparison, people comparing and contrasting economic plans, America's role in the world and foreign policy and on this immigration debate. Everybody seemed to agree we've got to secure the border. That never happens. Everybody says it will happen.
CRUZ: Yes.
HANNITY: So let's say we do secure the border. Then they have the question of those people that broke our laws, didn't respect our sovereignty. What do we do?
CRUZ: Well, look, I think we need to solve this problem one step at a time. You don't have to solve everything at once. That's the fallacy of comprehensive reform. We need to start with actually securing the borders. And one of the nice things is that, actually, existing federal law is quite robust. If you look at federal law, it is federal law today that there should be 700 miles of double-layered fencing built along our southern border.
HANNITY: Yes, where is it?
CRUZ: The Obama administration, we have about 30 miles built. If I'm elected president, we will build all 700 miles. What's missing is the presidential will to get it done!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
HANNITY: Senator, I agree, but isn't it -- listen, you have been probably the most bold and outspoken against Republicans that have been weak and timid and surrendered, and especially on "Obama care," especially on executive amnesty.
CRUZ: Yes.
HANNITY: And my question to you is, this now seems to be a battle, that the lines are drawn on the more conservative wing of the Republican Party, where you stand as an insurgent that is even hated by establishment types. So for their argument -- Oh, conservatives can't win a general election -- I don't believe that, by the way. But what is your argument back to that?
CRUZ: Listen, I believe in not following a pattern that doesn't work. Every time we nominate a candidate who runs to the mushy middle, we get clobbered. And one thing that is abundantly clear. If we nominate another candidate in the mold of a Bob Dole or a John McCain or a Mitt Romney, all of whom are good, honorable, decent men -- but what they did didn't work.
If we do it again, the same millions of conservatives that stayed home in '08 and '12 will stay home in '16. It doesn't make any sense.
I think this election is going to be like 1980, that we're going to win by doing exactly what Reagan did, by painting in bold colors, not pale pastels. We got to bring people out, and the way you do that is you give them a reason to vote.
You know, one of the reasons I thought last night was such a great debate is we finally saw some clear policy contrasts, whether it was on amnesty, where a bunch of those candidates on stage were embracing amnesty, and I was proud to take the other side, or whether it was on bail-outs.
You know, I had an exchange midway through the debate with another candidate who was embracing the idea that we ought to be bailing out Wall Street and we ought to be bailing out big banks. And yet it was striking, Sean, three, four, five candidates on that stage were asked, Would you bail out big banks? Not a one of them was willing to answer the question. They bobbed and weaved and talked back and forth.
And that's why I jumped in and said, You want an answer to that question? The question (sic) is no. We shouldn't be bailing out giant banks. What about mom and pop? What about Main Street? We shouldn't be using taxpayer funds to continue the cronyisms and bailouts. And if I am president, there will be no bail-outs for the rich and powerful!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
HANNITY: All right, Senator, stay right there. We're going to come back, and let me ask you about foreign policy questions that came up last night, economic questions. More with Senator Cruz after the break.
Also coming up tonight...
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CRUZ: Washington is fundamentally corrupt. There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the bible. And not a one of them is as good.
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HANNITY: Senator Cruz explained his tax plan last night. We'll ask him about it.
Then later, Ohio governor John Kasich and New Jersey governor Chris Christie -- they will be here to weigh in on the GOP debate as we continue.
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CRUZ: Washington is fundamentally corrupt. There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the bible. And not a one of them is as good.
My simple flat tax says that for a family of four, for the first $36,000 you earn, you pay no taxes whatsoever. Above that, every American pays 10 percent across the board, a flat fair tax, which means that no longer do you have hedge fund billionaires paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries. This plan eliminates the payroll tax, eliminates the death tax, eliminates the corporate income tax and it abolishes the IRS.
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HANNITY: All right, that was Senator Ted Cruz during last night's GOP debate vowing to eliminate the IRS as part of his comprehensive tax plan.
By the way, I think we now know, after these last two debates, you were the national champion from Harvard in debating. I think these two debates have been very good for you, Senator.
Let me give you an opportunity -- because so many Americans are suffering -- nearly 95 million Americans out of the labor force, 46 million Americans on food stamps, 50 million in poverty, median income down, health care costs going up, really, really hard times.
CRUZ: Right.
HANNITY: So I want to give you the time now to explain this plan so people understand it.
CRUZ: Well, my simple flat tax is exactly what it says. It's a flat tax of 10 percent for everybody. And what it would produce is incredible economic growth. The non-partisan Tax Foundation estimates that this would produce 4.9 million new jobs, that this would increase capital investments, things like new factories, by 44 percent, and that the after-tax income of every single income group in America would go up by double digits, at least 14 percent.
Now what does that mean? That means if you're a single mom, if you're working making $40,000 a year, that's about an extra $5,000 in cash in your pocket to feed your kids, to help make ends meet.
And what's critical -- you know, you look at young people coming out of school right now, and they're scared, they're demoralized, they've got student loans up to their eyeballs. They don't know if they're going to get a job.
Tax reform is an incredibly potent tool to produce economic growth and to get back -- the last time we faced this kind of stagnancy was under Jimmy Carter in the 1970s. And what did Reagan do? He came in with a massive tax reform plan, and it prompted incredible economic growth.
HANNITY: Let me ask you because John Kasich will be on later -- he seemed to -- he didn't mention you by name, so I don't know if he was talking about you, but he seemed to be making the case that these are not revenue-neutral, that some of these promises that some of the candidates are making are sort of pie in the sky.
Explain the revenue side of this coming into the government and how is it revenue neutral, et cetera.
HANNITY: Right. So the revenue side of this -- and all of the numbers are on our Web site at TedCruz.org. So if you want to go look at the numbers, you can look at all of the numbers at TedCruz.org.
Over 10 years, federal tax revenue on a static basis, which is not counting for growth, it would cost roughly $3.6 trillion. On a dynamic basis, because that actually counts what happens in counting growth, it would cost roughly $768 billion, less than a trillion.
Interesting enough, my plan, the simple flat tax not only has among the least revenue impacts of anyone's plan on that stage, but it also produces more jobs and growth than just about anyone. And most of the others are fiddling around the edges. We need to move towards every American filling out their taxes on a postcard, and we need to abolish the IRS. It is corrupt!
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CRUZ: It is targeting American citizens! And it's time to get rid of it!
HANNITY: Let me...
CRUZ: And Sean, we can get that done.
HANNITY: If we were to do that, take in the repatriated money from multi-national corporations that keep it offshore because they're going to be taxed so heavily -- if you add in the energy independence quotient to all of this, and if we made America the corporate tax haven of the world -- I keep making these points...
CRUZ: Yes.
HANNITY: ... what is the growth potential? Because I'd like to see all those Americans out of poverty, off of food stamps and back to work.
CRUZ: The growth potential is immense. Since 2008, we have averaged 1.2 percent growth a year. It is anemic. Historically, America's averaged 3.3 percent growth a year. I believe we can get back to 5 percent growth a year.
You know, JFK had 5 percent growth because he did what? He did tax reform and regulatory reform. These are the policies that work.
And Sean, let me focus on one aspect of my simple flat tax that I think is particularly powerful. It is 10 percent for individuals and a 16 percent business flat tax that applies to everyone. That means giant corporations no longer pay 0 percent while small businesses get hammered. Everyone pays the same fair rate.
But one of the really powerful aspects of it is that it is border- adjustable, which means if you're a farmer, if you're a rancher, if you work in manufacturing producing goods for exports, you pay 0 percent. You don't pay that 16 percent tax because all exports are tax-free. That gives our farmers and ranchers and manufacturers an enormous advantage.
And on the flip side, every import that comes in from any country across the world gets that 16 percent tax applied to it. What that does -- by the way, right now, you know, Europe does that to us.
HANNITY: Yes.
CRUZ: When we export to them, they put their taxes on our goods, but we don't do it back. I think we need to be on a level playing field.
And one of the sharpest divides last night was a number of Republicans who were willing to stand with the lobbyists in Washington, willing to stand with the cronyists. I think we should be standing with working men and women. It's one of the reasons -- for example, there are several Republicans who support and are embracing TPA and TPP. I don't think we should be giving in to Obama's plan...
HANNITY: Oh, my gosh!
CRUZ: ... to undermine U.S. sovereignty, to undermine our immigration law and...
HANNITY: 5,600 pages!
CRUZ: ... to hurt working men and women.
HANNITY: Who can read that?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
HANNITY: All right, Senator, it's good to see you. And our very best. Thank you for being with us tonight. We appreciate it.
CRUZ: Thank you, Sean. God bless. And let me give you the welcome from the folks here at the Dixon (ph) VFW in New Hampshire.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
CRUZ: They love you, Sean!
HANNITY: Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that.
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