MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript:
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SCHULTZ: For more, let me bring in Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.
Senator, good to have you with us tonight.
I want to bring up the fact that President Obama is short on details. Now,
that`s my opinion. OK? I believe that he is short on detail. I believe
that we`re in this "trust me" moment era of conversation.
Senator, is that enough? What should the administration do at this
juncture now that this is a heated conversation in all quarters of the
government?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well, Ed, we just wrote a letter to the
Trade Representative Mr. Froman asking him some very simple questions. And
one of the questions we asked is, how many jobs do you think we`re going to
lose when American workers have to compete "against workers in Vietnam who
have a minimum wage of $0.56 an hour?" And what does it mean that American
workers have to compete against workers in Malaysia?
This touches a part of the TPP where according to a U.S. Department of
Labor Commission study they have virtually -- hundreds of thousands of
people in forced labor. These are people migrants of Malaysia whose
passports have been taken away, who are working in slave-labor-type
conditions for the electronics industry.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: So we wanted to know how many jobs are going to be lost and
certainly Senator Warren`s point is, this is a fast track agreement, we
don`t know what`s in the agreement.
SCHULTZ: Well, I have to ask you this Senator, when does this become a
credibility issue for the President of the United States? The President is
saying trust me. The President is saying, look at his record of defending
and fighting for the middle class.
My point and contention is, it`s not about what the President has done,
it`s what the President will do if he has fast track authority, and what he
says he wants which is TPP which is a horrible trade deal. We all know
some of the details not all of them.
So, in your estimation, when is this become a credibility problem for the
White House, for the President?
SANDERS: Well, I think, Ed, to answer your question, it is important to
understand that it`s not just Barack Obama who is supporting this
agreement. It is every multi-national corporation in this country. It is
the pharmaceutical industry. It is Wall Street.
And what is their credibility in terms of the needs of working people? We
know that corporations would shut down in five minutes if they could make a
dime more in China rather than in the United States.
It threats (ph) of all of these past trade agreements has been to go to
countries where labor is cheap and the result has been the loss of millions
of decent paying jobs in this country.
So, first issue, it`s not just Barack Obama. Who is on the side of this
trade agreement? Every union in America represents and working people
says, no, bag agreement. Every major corporation, chamber commerce says
yes. Do we trust their judgment?
Second point I would make, is if you look historically at what people have
said, listen to what Bill Clinton said about NAFTA. Listen to what Bill
Clinton said about permanent normal trade relations with China. How all of
these jobs would -- can be created in the United States?
Listen to what George W. Bush had to say about trade. They were wrong.
They were wrong. And they real issue is, do we continue down the same old
path despite the fact that everyone of these trade agreements has caused us
jobs and pushed us into a race to the bottom.
SCHULTZ: Yeah. OK. Well, the President says you`re wrong. The President
says Elizabeth Warren is wrong. That`s about the depth of the detail that
we`re getting.
What kind of response do you think you`ll get from Mr. Froman? And Mr.
Froman knows exactly what`s in this deal. He knows what`s there, the
number of organizations that have been involved, there`s a select amount --
a very few select people in this country who know exactly what the detail
is.
This is not what Democracy looks like. This is not fair in a democracy.
This is not what I voted for. The President told me to trust him on health
care, and we never got the public option. The President gave indications
on the campaign trail that he was going to go after Wall Street. He didn`t
do that.
Now, he`s telling us, well, trust me on the biggest trade deal which covers
40 percent of the gross domestic product of this entire world, and yet we
can`t get answers.
You tried to slow down fast track yesterday in the Senate, what`s the
latest on this? What is going to happen now, Senator?
SANDERS: Well, it left committee I believe it`s a 20 to 6 vote "Yes". We
expected to get to the floor now next week but the following week, and
you`ll going to see a free for all. I think that...
SCHULTZ: Hold it, Senator. We got to go to President Obama. Stay with us
Bernie Sanders. I want to go to President Obama. He`s talking about trade
right now live. Here it is.
(LIVE VIDEO FEED)
SCHULTZ: That`s President Obama speaking live on the global economy and
trade, and Senator Bernie Sanders is still with us and I want to go back to
Senator Sander.
Senator, the President`s favored bullet point right now is that 95 percent
of the customers are outside the country. Now, my answer to that is
they`re purchasing power in Asia is nowhere near the purchasing power of
that of a middle class family in America.
This Asian buying power bullet point that the President is coming up with
is absolute hogwash. It doesn`t matter where the customers are if they
don`t have the buying power or the purchasing power.
He talks about values. And the President -- what`s he talking about in
values? We`ve never been able to enforce human rights in any kind of labor
rights on any other worker on the other side of the globe. We`ve never had
that power.
So the detail has to be given on how we`re going to be able to do that.
What`s the restitution? Are we going to throw him out of the trade deal?
Senator, I want your response to where these customers are outside the
United States. What about that?
SANDERS: Well, you`re absolutely right. If people are earning $1 or $2 a
day they`re not going to be purchasing American products. Ed, to the
degree that they are going to be purchasing products made by American
companies, those companies are going to move abroad and produce those
products in those countries.
I was in a Walmarts in China. It looks a lot like a Walmart in the United
States except all of those products in -- the Walmart in China were made in
China. That`s complicated.
The President says learn the right lesson. He`s right. And what is the
lesson? It`s not just consumers, its workers. How many corporations are
going to stay in America when they could go to Vietnam and pay $0.56 an
hour?
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: When you could -- yeah?
SCHULTZ: I want to play this tape. This is President just a moment ago
mentioning this network, MSNBC. Here it is.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. President, I want you to know that I believe in what
I`m doing. And if you can prove to the American people that there will not
be a depression of wages, if you can prove to the American people that this
will create jobs, if you want to go face to face with me, President Obama,
I`m ready to go because I have the facts, OK?
SANDERS: Hey, Ed. Ed...
SCHULTZ: And I also...
SANDERS: You should be...
SCHULTZ: Go ahead...
SANDERS: You should be very proud. I think he is talking about you. And
I`ll tell you why, because as I said on the floor of the Senate yesterday,
to the best of my knowledge, ABC, CBS and NBC and CNN to the best of my
knowledge have not discussed the largest trade agreement in the history of
the United States of America. And we might want to ask why that is the
case.
SCHULTZ: Well, you know, why would President Obama used the MSNBC call
letters? It`s been shown by Media Matters that this show has covered the
TPP more than anybody else, so, I would imagine that he`s talking about the
"Ed Show", but the President has never done a sit-down interview with Ed
Schultz.
And, hey, you know, my life is fine but, you know what, on this deal, the
President is wrong and I`m right.
The President is telling the American people that every union in this
country is wrong, and I can tell you that every union in this country has
been around longer than President Obama when it comes to trade deals and
having to live with them...
SANDERS: And not just union Ed, not just unions.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
SANDERS: You got many, many environmental -- organizations that have deep
concerns with this agreement as well.
SCHULTZ: OK. Senator Bernie Sanders, I`m sorry to interrupt the
interview.
SANDERS: That`s OK.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your -- how courteous you we`re in allowing us to do
that but we wanted to take the President live.
Thanks so much, Senator. I appreciate it.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source