MSNBC "The Ed Show" -Transcript: Trans Pacific Partnership
Interview
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For more, let me bring in Missouri Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, and also
with us tonight, Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio. Gentlemen, great to have
you with us tonight.
We are in no doubt, the 11th-hour of a huge decision that`s going to affect
our economy. And I want to tell our audience tonight that this pressure is
not going to end any time soon. This is the way the month of June is going
to be.
The President`s going to be work in the phone, he`s going to be working the
caucuses, he`s going to be trying to get every vote until they get enough
votes. So what`s the drop dead date on all of this? Congressman Cleaver,
I know that you seriously are considering where you`re going to go on this
and I`d like to know first of all tonight, how much pressure is the
Congressional Black Caucus under from the President and what do these phone
calls sound like to your knowledge?
REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, (D) MISSOURI: Well, I think there`s pressure being
applied by people on all sides, and it goes even beyond the Congressional
Black Caucus. But I do think that the President is making phone calls,
make no mistake about it. And I think, you know, there are those who the
President is really making an appeal to, not on the basis of race, because
I haven`t heard any of that.
But he`s saying to them that, you know, "Look, I`m not going to jeopardize
the American worker". The problem of course is that we have history to
look at and history is not that helpful to these current negotiations. In
fact, if we go by history, this is a no vote for almost everyone, but I`m
still trying to be open to this.
And if there`s some thing I could do, I mentioned it, Ed, earlier, currency
manipulation, that`s a big deal to me. I have four plan (ph) in my
congressional district. And that`s one of the things that they`re
concerned about with the Ford Company (ph).
I mean, everybody is concerned about currency manipulation on whether we`re
going to have access to markets that we don`t have access to at the current
tie (ph). And what are they going to do about workers in foreign lands?
SCHULTZ: How are you going to vote, Congressman Cleaver, have you made a
decision?
CLEAVER: Well, if I have to vote right now, the vote would be no. You
know, if they put things -- I`m not anti-trade, so if they can put some
things in here to assure the American worker that we`re not subtracting
their numbers, and I can feel good about it. Then, I can think in terms of
voting for it. But if I have to vote right now at this moment with what`s
in the legislation that I know about, it`s a no vote.
SCHULTZ: You know, that is a very profound point that everybody in
Congress is for trade. But fair trade is paramount.
Congressman Ryan, has China done anything to make us believe that we can
trust them when it comes to trade deals?
REP. TIM RYAN, D OHIO: Well, we`ve got more issues with China coming down
the pike with the issue of dumping steel. We`ve seen it happening in
Youngstown, Northeast Ohio, Western P.A. for a longtime dumping steel,
tubing on. We put on tariffs, they comeback in through another country.
We got to go back with the steel worker union, with the companies to hire
lawyers and go chase them all around the globe.
So I don`t see that currency manipulation has been a huge issue with them
since I started in Congress 13 years ago, Ed. And we`ve not made any
headway on it at all.
And let me just say, it`s not a coincidence that the average American
thinks that the deck is stacked against them because the deck is stacked
against them. And these trade deals, you`ll see, I`ll give you one
example.
Senator Rob Portman in Ohio supported NAFTA, was Bush`s trade rep. He
raised $120,000 in the first three months of this year, OK? About 10
percent of what these corporations are giving out. He got in his re-
election account running against Governor Ted Strickland here in Ohio.
That`s the amount of pressure that`s being put on, regardless of the fact
that we have an increase in the trade deficit with NAFTA countries.
Regardless of the fact that Ohio lost 320,000 jobs since NAFTA. I just
want you to understand and your viewers to understand the amount of money
and pressure that`s being applied to some friendly folks to this trade
agreement like Senator Portman, but also others who were sitting on the
fence, and this is why we got to hold the line.
We lost 320,000 jobs since NAFTA in the state of Ohio.
Now, how are you going to say that the average person here has opportunity?
How can we look them in the eye and say they have an opportunity to climb
the economic ladder, to go to a steel mill, take a shower after work, but
be able to send their kids to college, go on a family vacation and still
have enough time to go watch a little league baseball game at night.
Those jobs are going by the wayside...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
RYAN: ... and my fear is that this agreement with Asia in the Pacific Rim
is going to make it even worse.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Cleaver, when you take a look at a jobs program, and
this is going to put more pressure on outsourcing, there`s no question
about that.
But the President says we have to engage in Asia, what`s your
interpretation of that in relationship to creating jobs in America? That`s
what I find most confusing about all of this.
CLEAVER: Well, look, we need a jobs bill. We haven`t had one in years.
And we don`t have one now. We need a summer jobs program for young kids.
Just think about, the school is going to be, essentially, are all over the
country by the end of next week. And so we`re going to have millions of
high school kids aimlessly taking in the summer. And that`s dangerous and
not productive for them.
So we need a jobs program, right. As I understand it now, there`s $30
million to $50 million for summer jobs program. $30 million to $50 million
is enough for Tim Ryan and his district by itself, not the nation.
So, you know, if we`re going to vote for a trade agreement then, I`ve got
to be 100 percent sure, I mean, 100 percent sure that workers in the United
States are going to have jobs now. And those that don`t have jobs will have
the opportunity to be trained for the new technologically advanced jobs
that are available and that have been coming in since the recession.
So I`m not sure about how sensitive I`m going to be to Asia. My sensitivity
lies first and foremost with the people of Missouri`s congressional
district, and they need jobs, now.
SCHULTZ: There is no doubt that. And this country has not done enough
when it comes to black youth unemployment in this country. And I don`t
know how this trade agreement is going to address an issue such as that.
Congressman Ryan, let me ask you, do you think that Democrats can hold the
line? If the vote were taken right now, it would not pass. And you
mention the financial pressure and the money that`s going into campaigns to
try to twist some arms and get some votes. Do you believe in your heart
that the Democrats are going to be able to hold the line on this, those
pro-workers out there?
RYAN: Well, we got a tough whip organization. Rosa DeLauro from
Connecticut is leading the charge, guys like Lloyd Doggett down in Texas,
Pete DeFazio. We`ve got some hard-nosed whip counters and whippers in our
little whip operation that we have in the house. We`re working really hard
with the environmental groups, the labor unions have been terrific. The
human rights groups have been terrific, the religious organizations have
been terrific. So it`s a real coalition.
But I will say, you know, for those people who may naturally be inclined to
be for free trade, maybe they don`t represent Youngstown, Ohio, the kind of
- just the people on district that I represent.
We are still dropping the ball on what`s going to make America competitive,
Ed. Even if you`re for all of this, no transportation bill, we don`t have
to be aware (ph) with all the pass of transportation bill. We`re not
investing in the research and development. We`re not investing in the
clean energy. We`re not reusing the cost of college tuition so we have an
educated workforce. We`re not pumping money in the re-training our
workers, we`re not innovating in our schools, all of the key components
that leading to a very vibrant growing economy where wages are going up
still aren`t in place.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
RYAN: So maybe you`re for the trade agreement. You`re still not doing a
slew of things. So maybe do a slew of...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
RYAN: ... these things that we all can maybe agree on, then comeback with
this trade deal. I probably still wouldn`t be for it but I`m saying we are
not going to position ourselves to be as competitive as we need to be in
the 21st century. If we don`t get on the ball and have the grit and the
tenacity to pass some of these...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
RYAN: ... other things that made America great in the first place.
SCHULTZ: And, Congressman Cleaver, my final question, are you comfortable
with a six-year deal? I mean, this is going to set the table for future
trade agreements, which again, could make American jobs vulnerable. And
also, you won`t be able to debate it in Congress that`ll be given to you as
either an up or down vote.
I mean, this isn`t just for one trade agreement. This is a six-year deal.
How do you feel about that?
CLEAVER: Well, I`m a legislator like my colleague and friend Tim Ryan.
I`m a legislator, so when we walk into the House to vote, or enter into a
debate, we want to be able to submit some amendments. We want to try to
make legislation better. And of course, the way the legislation or the
agreement is being presented is that, it`s up and down, as you said, which
means we don`t have opportunity to do amendments.
Now, here`s what I would do. I need a six-year deal on transportation.
Everybody understands for every billion dollars we spend on transportation,
we create 40,000 jobs. Now, if you put -- if the Republicans would say,
"OK, we`re going to approve a transportation bill, a six-year deal", now
we`re starting to talk. Because that means, we`re going to create jobs...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
CLEAVER: ... but without that, I`m out here in trade agreement purgatory.
SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman Emanuel Cleaver, Congressman Tim Ryan, great to
have both of you with us tonight. I appreciate your time. Thanks for your
insight.
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