MSNBC "The Ed Show"- Transcript: USA Freedom Act
Interview
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For more let me bring in Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin. Senator, good
to have with us tonight. I appreciate your time.
You were one of the "No" votes today.
SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN, (D) WISCONSIN: I was.
SCHULTZ: Can you tell our audience what you`re thinking was on that. And
I appreciate your time.
BALDWIN: Yes. Well, Ed. I served in the House of Representative back in
2001 when the original USA Patriot Act was brought to the floor. While I
had worked on it in the House Judiciary Community and we actually have
reported out bipartisan version. It was substituted in the last minute
with something that Bush administration wanted and I voted "No".
And I have been very concern about the ways in which inroads checks and
balances that I was concerned at the time that I could lead to government
overreach. Certainly we`ve seen that with the bulk collection of this
metadata and other program that have been really overreach. And I voted
against the reauthorization.
Now, I will say about the USA Freedom Act. It does make some small reforms
to the underlying USA Patriot Act. But they really didn`t go far enough in
my mind. And I do believe it didn`t just deserve a debate in the public
eye on Section 215. But there`s also other section of the USA Patriot Act
that we got to be talking a closer look at.
SCHULTZ: Senator, what you`re analysis of the function of the FISA Court
now that this bill is going to the President`s desk. I mean this really
was the cracks of the debate in the focal point of all of these. That the
FISA Court did not do what it was suppose to do that there were secret
conversation amongst government officials to go do things at the FISA Court
never saw, your thoughts on that.
BALDWIN: Well, I have a lot of thoughts on this FISA Court. Back again
when I was serving in the House, I had hope that there would be
opportunities for us even hold hearing or have conversations with some of
the judges that have been in panel to served on that, to really understand
their process and be able to create the types of checks and balances that
you need in adversarial process.
What we do know is that the FISA Court has been one sided court. You only
hear form government witnesses. This USA Freedom Act will make some
changes and these reforms are important, there will be in paneled group of
experts who can be brought in for novel cases. But frankly I think the
American public and the constitution deserve the voice in those courts
every time they meet.
SCHULTZ: OK. What about these private companies now are going to be
handling this information? Are you comfortable with that?
BALDWIN: Well, they had -- the private companies handle this information
and always have. And we do have choices about whether we have a
cellphones, whether we have landline et cetera although most of us do.
What I think is important is that we`re moving toward the system where
they`re more checks and balances on the type of searches that can be done
on these type of records. That is moving in the right direction but I am
still not convinced that we`ve gone far enough. And if I might go back to
that original concern, set of concern I had about the USA Patriot Act.
I think the blurs the lines between what the forth amendment guarantees in
terms of probably cause for a warrant to surveil U.S. citizens. And this
much lower relevant to an investigation standard. It`s a slippery slope.
But I think we`ve seen that has cause problems in the years since the
original passage of the USA Patriot Act.
SCHULTZ: And finally Senator tonight. Are you comfortable at heart that
we`re safer?
BALDWIN: You know, a certainly for a lot of reasons we`re safer since
9/11. We learned a lot. The 9/11 commission thought us a lot. We have
lot recommendations. And so from many reasons, but I have still to this
day concerns about provisions of the USA Patriot Act. Some that we`re
before us in this debate on the Senate floor today, but some that weren`t
before us, again the Section 702 of underlying USA Patriot Act that won`t
sunset for a couple of years yet. We still have to debate those
provisions.
SCHULTZ: OK, Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, good to have you with us
tonight.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time. Thank you.
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